Fundamentally, you cant hang a build off this unit, even at 7 points. So the idea of having swarms is hyperbole. Basic fighters or capital ships will blunt these unit very quickly if subs arent a factor
This is not an exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
This unit would is clearly not meant to attack Capital ships whitch generally don't protect Subs and spreading fighters thin can be a useful tactic to reach your ultimate goal.
I get what you are saying, but I don't think it is a big risk on the Axis side. The unit number limit on a build also makes "swarms" very hard to pull off. But what I think we would get is a good unit that could cover a sub or two in the first turn and beyond and also have utility against non-capital ships. But with 4/7 armor I wouldn't rely on tying up too many points in these things.
What I really like about the Ar 196 and the Pete is they are very representative of the decision both the Kriegsmarine and IJN made to use higher performance, long range float planes to fill their gaps in carriers for air cover in distant areas. I think this is probably the most unique and historically correct niche we are filling (along with the Rufe) with this deck.
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This is not an exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
This unit would is clearly not meant to attack Capital ships whitch generally don't protect Subs and spreading fighters thin can be a useful tactic to reach your ultimate goal.
I get what you are saying, but I don't think it is a big risk on the Axis side. The unit number limit on a build also makes "swarms" very hard to pull off. But what I think we would get is a good unit that could cover a sub or two in the first turn and beyond and also have utility against non-capital ships. But with 4/7 armor I wouldn't rely on tying up too many points in these things.
What I really like about the Ar 196 and the Pete is they are very representative of the decision both the Kriegsmarine and IJN made to use higher performance, long range float planes to fill their gaps in carriers for air cover in distant areas. I think this is probably the most unique and historically correct niche we are filling (along with the Rufe) with this deck.
I understand the need for a better way to balance the IJN ASW roll, my concern at 7pts 3 can replace any two averaged cost IJN DD in a build, and
it's going to have a 3 die ASW attack anywhere on the map at any time with no restriction on the units except build limitations, the Allies planes have Loiter thats a Airfield cap. limitation.
I think its a good idea giving it a 3 ASW attack; it may just be me, but i feel it needs to be curbed somehow.
I get what you are saying, but I don't think it is a big risk on the Axis side. The unit number limit on a build also makes "swarms" very hard to pull off. But what I think we would get is a good unit that could cover a sub or two in the first turn and beyond and also have utility against non-capital ships. But with 4/7 armor I wouldn't rely on tying up too many points in these things.
What I really like about the Ar 196 and the Pete is they are very representative of the decision both the Kriegsmarine and IJN made to use higher performance, long range float planes to fill their gaps in carriers for air cover in distant areas. I think this is probably the most unique and historically correct niche we are filling (along with the Rufe) with this deck.
I understand the need for a better way to balance the IJN ASW roll, my concern at 7pts 3 can replace any two averaged cost IJN DD in a build, and
it's going to have a 3 die ASW attack anywhere on the map at any time with no restriction on the units except build limitations, the Allies planes have Loiter thats a Airfield cap. limitation.
I think its a good idea giving it a 3 ASW attack; it may just be me, but i feel it needs to be curbed somehow.
If you are okay with the 3 ASW let's finish up the card development and then we can see where the cost lands.
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Maker: Aichi Introduced: 1941 Wingspan: 47ft, 7 in Length: 37ft, 1in Speed: 234 mph at 7,155 ft Forumini Speed: 13 Service Ceiling: 28,640 ft Armament: 1 x 7.7mm MG, 1 x 551 lb bomb, 4 x 132 lb bombs, or 4 x DCs Range : 1,128 miles ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Aichi E13A "Jake" Aircraft ā Dive Bomber 1941 Cost: ? Bomb: 7 ASW: 3 A/VA/HP: 4/7/1
SAs Sea Basing - This unit can base only in a coast or an island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step. Spotter - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Ships roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship at range 2 or greater with their main Gunnery attack this turn.
The stats are asw 3, it was equipped with proper anti-sub weapons and sensor. It operated in a dedicated asw role.
We dont amend base stats on feelings.
The He-115 was initially proposed as a seabasing aircraft but amended to loiter for similar "swarm" reasons though
And the He-115 was completely gutted because of that IMO. With 3 armor and without sea basing it is permanently in the tackle-box of doom.
Sometimes the line between useless and very good is quite thin. Especially for units that are very vulnerable defensively.
The Jake isn't quite as bad at armor 4, but it still isn't going to get through Allied AA very easily IMO. Defensive Armament on the Emily makes it much tougher to take down.
But I agree play testing is definitely warranted.
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My approach was always a 2 ASW with a Lone Hunter type SA; only because of Sea Basing;;; no limited control of Jake numbers.
We all know we've been through the KOD and 3 Musashi builds the IJN has a big edge in super BB's 41 to 43
the one thing that can hurt in a BB build is other BB's or Subs. A Musashi, Yamato build can handle 9 Jakes at 7pts i think the sub threat is gone.
We can argue fighters can control that, but they are limited to 7 again no matter how cheap "limitations."
Again the Rufe a poor choice at 8 pts for a Zeke, although you can skew the air numbers with it;; a Fighters roll usually isn't to sink ships or subs.
Do as you see fit;;; its just my look at the basic games effect with something new a cheap Sea Basing Dive Bomber.
I totally get the concern. KOD and Musashi builds have been compensated for somewhat now, but the Greif went too far and put us right back where we started and even worse IMO. So we do need to be careful as always. But we also need to make sure we are not so conservative that we have nothing of interest to play in the deck.
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SAs Sea Basing - This unit can base only in a coast or an island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step. Spotter - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Ships roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship at range 2 or greater with their main Gunnery attack this turn.
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