Aichi E13A "Jake" *Done*

weedsrock2
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Aichi E13A "Jake" *Done* Jan 19, 2021 5:38:46 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 19, 2021 5:38:46 GMT

I am getting confused.

I think these are the other suggestions?

Elite Bombers - Once per turn at the end of the Air Mission Phase, you may choose a friendly Dive Bomber or Torpedo Bomber. That Aircraft gets Armor 5 this turn. (Peter Strasser)

Did you mean Ace Bombers on the Elite Val and Night Specialist?

Ace Bombers - Once per game, this unit may reroll one Bomb attack.

Night Specialist - While in Darkness, this unit gets +1 on each search check and ignores darkness attack penalties.

Night Bomber - While in Darkness, this unit may reroll one Bomb attack?

Or Ace Bombers and ASW?

ASW Specialist - Once per game, this unit may reroll one ASW attack.

Also suggested:

Coastal Cover - This unit rolls one extra attack die if it is in or adjacent to a coast or island sector on your side of the map. (139WH, Hawk 75N)

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weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 5,199	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 19, 2021 5:50:41 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 19, 2021 5:50:41 GMT Shadowing also fits this unit. Shadowing - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Aircraft roll one extra attack die when attacking that Ship this turn.
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weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 5,199	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 19, 2021 5:55:31 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 19, 2021 5:55:31 GMT This one from the old Forumini card makers would also fit. Pretty niche though. Torpedo Boat Hunter - Torpedo Boats(Ships?) with High Speed Evasion can't use that ability against this unit.
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flakstruk
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Aichi E13A "Jake" *Done* Jan 19, 2021 8:13:24 GMT via mobile

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Post by flakstruk on Jan 19, 2021 8:13:24 GMT

Jan 19, 2021 4:02:46 GMT flakstruk said:

Weeds, you just need some custom counters for that stuff lol

Night specialist overlaps with rufe pretty intently. What if we roll that and swarm together into a reroll like elite bombers

Im usually pretty skeptical of installation SAs, but if its a bit of a add on without cost, it plays a useful roleplay role. Passively boost installation stats

I think the ijn delineated scouting to cruisers rather than carriers at the time of midway

Another ASW option might be to allow it to benefit from expert ASW

mnnorthstars Deck E developer Posts: 9,324	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 19, 2021 13:39:54 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mnnorthstars on Jan 19, 2021 13:39:54 GMT Weaky says the Tone-class cruisers wore these as the war progressed. One thing to consider is that Spotter stacks with Shadowing.
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raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,615	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 19, 2021 20:02:40 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Jan 19, 2021 20:02:40 GMT Weeds, what’s the sub hunting history like for this plane?

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 19, 2021 20:20:28 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Jan 19, 2021 20:20:28 GMT I meant ASW Specialist

mnnorthstars Deck E developer Posts: 9,324	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 20, 2021 2:05:16 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mnnorthstars on Jan 20, 2021 2:05:16 GMT There’s a post, weeds, at the bottom of general discussion in the private forum on page 1 you might want to go back and read.
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weedsrock2
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Aichi E13A "Jake" *Done* Jan 20, 2021 5:56:13 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 20, 2021 5:56:13 GMT

Jan 19, 2021 20:02:40 GMT raevski said:

Weeds, what’s the sub hunting history like for this plane?

The IJN did not create dedicated ASW air units until the end of 1942. Airbourne radar (KMX system) was introduced in October 1943. It was installed in Jake's by eliminating the third crew seat. Flying boats, Betty's, Jake's, and some B5N and Zekes were used as well. The book "Japanese Anit-submarine Aircraft in the Pacific War" says "The unit (901st Kokutai) reports claimed sinking 20 submarines, however there has been no confirmation that any Japanese aircraft alone sank a submarine in the Pacific War."

The whole book gives reports of submarines being attacked by the air, but with no confirmation on the Allied side that any of the attacks actually sunk a sub. They likely just did a decent job of forcing subs to crash dive. However, I have other references that say Sonia's sank the last US submarine sunk in the war. I think that is from adding two-plus-two from reports from the Sonia's that they attacked a sub, and the fact that the US sub disappeared in that area at about that time.

Anyway, the Japanese created 18 Kokutai dedicated to anti-submarine patrols from November 1942 onward. These Kokutai also performed other tasks, but ASW was a priority. Starting in late 1943 they began doing a lot of convoy cover patrols. Not all of them were equipped with Jake's, but Jake's were a prominent aircraft in use by many of the Kokutai's.

Let's face it, Axis ASW attack values across-the-board are based on theoretical capability, not on actual wartime performance. The Axis powers sucked at ASW. Despite what you see in the old wartime movies, the Axis did not have sonar until late in the war. They relied on hydrophones. RB and the card teams have given Axis ASW scores a lot of leeway for game balance.

Operationally, the Jake was indeed used extensively for ASW patrols. They just didn't manage to sink any subs. Just like the number of ships sunk by torpedoes from Soviet subs. You can just about count the number on two hands.

Last Edit: Jan 20, 2021 5:56:50 GMT by weedsrock2

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weedsrock2
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Aichi E13A "Jake" *Done* Jan 20, 2021 5:59:07 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 20, 2021 5:59:07 GMT

BTW, Japanese Anit-submarine Aircraft in the Pacific War, by Ryusuke Ishiguro and Tadeusz Januszewski just published last year. It is the only English-language reference I know of that discusses Japanese aircraft ASW. And it is easy to see why. The Japanese were not very good at it.

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weedsrock2
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Aichi E13A "Jake" *Done* Jan 20, 2021 6:04:35 GMT Theaetetus likes this

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Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 20, 2021 6:04:35 GMT

ASW Specialist - Once per game, this unit may reroll one ASW attack.

This seems like a good enough option to me.

The fact is a seaplane with Bomb 7 and ASW 3 and Sea Basing is a pretty good unit for the Axis even without SAs. Give it Spotting and a decent cost and I think it will find a lot of use. It's big weakness is the 4/7/1 armor. It will have to be carefully deployed to actually survive to make an attack. Placing it at a distance for Spotting or over subs is the ideal way to use it. It will force your opponent to use fighters to go after them if they have them in their build. I don't think I would risk them for a bomb attack for anything above a 6 AA cruiser.

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mnnorthstars Deck E developer Posts: 9,324	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 20, 2021 19:12:59 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mnnorthstars on Jan 20, 2021 19:12:59 GMT I don’t think we need the reroll, ASW 3 is a boon.
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waratsea4 Forumini Lieutenant Posts: 839	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 20, 2021 20:24:04 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by waratsea4 on Jan 20, 2021 20:24:04 GMT Thats why i suggested Coastal Cover, a ASW of 2 with a possible boost, along with a bomb boost. No reason not to change the SA to cover whole map. Along with spotter and seabasing you have a nice unit.

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,615	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 20, 2021 20:27:49 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Jan 20, 2021 20:27:49 GMT ASW3 you sold me, especially that they had a radar dedicated to SUb search.

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	Aichi E13A "Jake" Done Jan 20, 2021 22:19:56 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Jan 20, 2021 22:19:56 GMT A ASW boost would be a nice little give, asw 3 is good but the platform is fragile and not really giving new capability over the emily.

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Aichi E13A "Jake" Done

Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 19, 2021 5:38:46 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 19, 2021 5:50:41 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 19, 2021 5:55:31 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Jan 19, 2021 8:13:24 GMT

Post by mnnorthstars on Jan 19, 2021 13:39:54 GMT

Post by raevski on Jan 19, 2021 20:02:40 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Jan 19, 2021 20:20:28 GMT

Post by mnnorthstars on Jan 20, 2021 2:05:16 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 20, 2021 5:56:13 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 20, 2021 5:59:07 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jan 20, 2021 6:04:35 GMT

Post by mnnorthstars on Jan 20, 2021 19:12:59 GMT

Post by waratsea4 on Jan 20, 2021 20:24:04 GMT

Post by raevski on Jan 20, 2021 20:27:49 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Jan 20, 2021 22:19:56 GMT

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