AR 196 *DONE* | Forumini

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 26, 2019 14:38:33 GMT nrnstraswa likes this

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Mar 26, 2019 14:38:33 GMT

AR 196

Maker: Arado
Introduced: Nov 1938
Wingspan: 36ft
Length: 40ft 8in
Speed: 193 mph
Forumini Speed: 7
Service Ceiling: 23 000ft
Armament: 1 x 7.92mm 81Z MG, 2 x 20mm MG FF autocannon, 2 x 50 kg bombs
Range : 671 miles
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aircraft – Fighter?
1939
Cost: ?
MG: 2?
AA: 6?
A/VA/HP: 5/8/1

SEA BASING: This unit can base only in a coast or an island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step.

Intercepted lone allied patrol bombers
Damaged and captured HMS Seal
Mostly flew reconnaissance missions
Rail launched scout plane for capital ships

Possible SAs

SHADOWING: At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Aircraft roll one extra attack die when attacking that Ship this turn.

ASW PINPOINTER: Ships roll one extra attack die when making ASW attacks against any Submarine this unit attacks this turn.

Modified version of
SCOUT PLANES: At the beginning of your Air Attack phase, you may choose an enemy Ship. Roll one extra attack die when making Torpedo attacks against that Ship this turn.

An SA limiting AA to Patrol Bombers only

Last Edit: Aug 18, 2019 20:27:03 GMT by ticat1

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

SWO_Daddy
Deck E developer

Posts: 6,016

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 26, 2019 23:15:55 GMT nrnstraswa likes this

Quote

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 26, 2019 23:15:55 GMT

I made a card for this plane some time ago:

I've never been 100% happy with it. I was attempting to focus on the plane's use with German commerce raiders, and I think thematically its OK, but I think I may have overcosted it just a touch. I did a number of these small sea planes all at once, and I think I may have taxed them a bit too hard in some cases. I treated it as a Patrol Bomber vice a Fighter, which cleaned up some interactions, but obviously at the cost of an AA attack. Its very nice supporting German Cruisers and Aux Raiders, but that can be pretty situational.

Last Edit: Mar 26, 2019 23:20:34 GMT by SWO_Daddy

I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way.
- Captain John Paul Jones

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 27, 2019 22:40:14 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 27, 2019 22:40:14 GMT

Ar 196's were actually used as fighters and bombers at times. Somewhat like the Rufe. I think there is some flexibility with what you could do with this aircraft compared to most spotter aircraft. ASW was one of their main early roles according to the two books I have on this aircraft. Arado's forced the British submarine HMS Seal to surface and surrender in one particularly noteworthy engagement. They attacked Soviet subs in the Baltic as well. They provided air cover for U-boats departing from the French coast.

From Arado Ar 196 - Germany's Multi-Purpose Seaplane

"The mission of the Ar 196 was multi-faceted. In addition to reconnaissance of the coastline and protecting larger ship units, attacking smaller ship units, enemy anti-submarine reconnaissance aircraft, courier duty, sea rescue duty and engaging partisan units in the Aegean were all part of the daily duties of this robust aircraft."

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 27, 2019 22:51:24 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 27, 2019 22:51:24 GMT

Arado's shot down a number of Allied aircraft. But I think it should get an AA 4-5 value, 2 ASW, and maybe 2 gunnery. Bomb 3 would be justified. But I am not sure it if really makes much sense to give it both a gunnery and a bomb attack. Maybe a once-per-game bomb attack?

5/8/1 is a bit much for a floatplane. It wasn't as high-performance as the Rufe, but it was more rugged. Aircraft stats aren't my forte, but something like 4/6-7/1 seems more like it to me.

This thing could have a lot of SA's. We will need to narrow down to what makes it most interesting/useful. I agree on the Sea Basing for sure.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 5,199	AR 196 DONE Mar 27, 2019 22:56:27 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 27, 2019 22:56:27 GMT Pinpointer gets handed out a lot, but I don't see it used very often. Something like SWO's Raider Spotter, but for any chosen friendly ship. German battleships and cruisers were the first to get the Arado.
	The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 1:05:29 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 28, 2019 1:05:29 GMT

Here are some "standard" recon floatplane SAs that I came up with in the private thread when we were discussing units to include.

1. Spotting - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Cruisers and Battleships roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship with their Main Battery this turn.
2. Air Rescue Operations - Once per game, instead your Air attack step, this unit can perform a rescue mission if it's within range 2 of a sector where a friendly Aircraft was destroyed. Score 3 vp's at the end of the turn.
3. Ship Basing - This unit can base only in a sector containing a friendly Cruiser or Battleship. Don't place a rearming counter on this unit during your air return step. If there are no cruisers or Battleships in your fleet at the start of the Air Return step this unit is destroyed.

For a seaplane like the Walrus or an Ro. 43 that was used mostly for ship gunnery spotting I think No. 1 and No. 3 are ideal. Number 2 is applicable to all floatplanes.

I would propose to give at Number 1 to the Ar 196 as it represents a good reusable "generic" ship based floatplane SA.

Number 2 could be used, but I think it is a throwaway SA quite honestly.

Number 3 is appropriate for floatplanes that were used almost exclusively as ship-based aircraft. I don't think we need to limit the Arado to this one. Sea Basing is fine for the Arado IMO.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 1:15:26 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 28, 2019 1:15:26 GMT

So I will put out this interim "straw man" configuration.

Ar 196
Germany
Maker: Arado
Introduced: Nov 1938
Wingspan: 36ft
Length: 40ft 8in
Speed: 193 mph
Forumini Speed: 7
Service Ceiling: 23 000ft
Armament: 1 x 7.92mm 81Z MG, 2 x 20mm MG FF autocannon, 2 x 50 kg bombs
Range : 671 miles
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Germany
Aircraft – Fighter
1939
Cost: ?
MG: 2?
AA: 5?

Bomb: 3?

ASW: 2

A/VA/HP: 4/7/1?

Sea Basing - This unit can base only in a coast or an island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step.

Spotter - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Auxiliaries, Battleships and Cruisers roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship with their Main Battery this turn.

We could add Auxiliaries to Spotter, but then it wouldn't be as universal an SA for other Navies.

Edited to add "Auxiliaries" to the Spotter SA

Last Edit: Mar 29, 2019 3:07:24 GMT by weedsrock2

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	AR 196 DONE Mar 28, 2019 2:28:22 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Mar 28, 2019 2:28:22 GMT Spotter is exactly what I was thinking. It would go well with Walrus, too.
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

SWO_Daddy
Deck E developer

Posts: 6,016

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 2:41:36 GMT

Quote

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 28, 2019 2:41:36 GMT

I think an SA like "Spotter" is almost a must. These aircraft could really be game changers for Raiders and when a Raider lost its small supply of scout planes, they usually took a pretty big hit to their tactical effectiveness. In the case of the Arado, I do think the ability should apply to Auxiliaries, even if it means the Germans get a unique SA. It played a significant role in their operations.

I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way.
- Captain John Paul Jones

SWO_Daddy
Deck E developer

Posts: 6,016

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 2:46:22 GMT

Quote

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 28, 2019 2:46:22 GMT

When I did my cards, I considered a unique "Ship Basing" SA, but decided to avoid it. While these types of planes were often based on BBs and CAs, there were other unit types that carried them, and they did operate from coastal bases as well (more in some navies than in others, but I could almost always find a historical case of not being ship based). I found limiting the "Spotting" SA to particular types of ships was enough of a restriction - if you don't have the right ships still in the battle to spot for, the plane becomes pretty useless anyway. Bottom line - I agree, I'd stick to Sea Basing for these.

Last Edit: Mar 28, 2019 2:49:03 GMT by SWO_Daddy

I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way.
- Captain John Paul Jones

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 4:27:19 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 28, 2019 4:27:19 GMT

Mar 28, 2019 2:41:36 GMT SWO_Daddy said:

I think an SA like "Spotter" is almost a must. These aircraft could really be game changers for Raiders and when a Raider lost its small supply of scout planes, they usually took a pretty big hit to their tactical effectiveness. In the case of the Arado, I do think the ability should apply to Auxiliaries, even if it means the Germans get a unique SA. It played a significant role in their operations.

Yeah, I would be fine with adding Auxiliaries. And even if that is the "standard" version of the SA that would be okay with me as well. How many points are you going to spend on Auxiliary main gun attacks anyway? Pretty specialized.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

jlebaron13
Forumini Ensign

Posts: 171

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 11:26:59 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by jlebaron13 on Mar 28, 2019 11:26:59 GMT

Don't comment on development often enough but I've recently used SWO's card and enjoyed it's flavor. Played an Atlantic match with these based in France supporting cruisers. Spotter with auxiliary cruiser bonus certainly seems like the way to keep the flavor.

texasarcher
Deck E playtester

Posts: 436

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 28, 2019 22:31:07 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by texasarcher on Mar 28, 2019 22:31:07 GMT

Mar 27, 2019 22:40:14 GMT weedsrock2 said:

Ar 196's were actually used as fighters and bombers at times. Somewhat like the Rufe. I think there is some flexibility with what you could do with this aircraft compared to most spotter aircraft. ASW was one of their main early roles according to the two books I have on this aircraft. Arado's forced the British submarine HMS Seal to surface and surrender in one particularly noteworthy engagement. They attacked Soviet subs in the Baltic as well. They provided air cover for U-boats departing from the French coast.

From Arado Ar 196 - Germany's Multi-Purpose Seaplane

"The mission of the Ar 196 was multi-faceted. In addition to reconnaissance of the coastline and protecting larger ship units, attacking smaller ship units, enemy anti-submarine reconnaissance aircraft, courier duty, sea rescue duty and engaging partisan units in the Aegean were all part of the daily duties of this robust aircraft."

Totally agree and I am in favor of the 4/7/1 line.... mayyyyybe 4/6/1. The original idea of making a less than 200mph plane Armor 5 was absolutely absurd and more German power creep. Maybe doing this first will give us some GOOD ideas on how to do Walrus, but I'm not getting my Hopes up for that turd of a plane...

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

AR 196 *DONE* Mar 29, 2019 3:05:54 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 29, 2019 3:05:54 GMT

With Walrus I would suggest increasing the range of a battleship or cruiser main gunnery attack by 1. The game "Victory at Sea" has a scoutplane mechanic that allows you to shoot with more dice (I think) at greater range if you have a scout in the air. Something like that anyway. It has been a long time since I played that game.

That would definitely not apply to an auxiliary though. I like the +1 for this one.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

SWO_Daddy Deck E developer Posts: 6,016	AR 196 DONE Mar 29, 2019 5:12:43 GMT nrnstraswa likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 29, 2019 5:12:43 GMT Not to hijack the thread, but these are the other Floatplanes similar to the Arado that I did several years ago. Some of these are better than others and include things I wouldn't repeat, but food for thought...
	I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way. - Captain John Paul Jones

Gallery Title:
Image URL:
Image Title:
Comment:
Tick this box if you would like to allow other members to add images to your gallery.Add Image

Forumini

title

AR 196 DONE

Post by ticat1 on Mar 26, 2019 14:38:33 GMT

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 26, 2019 23:15:55 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 27, 2019 22:40:14 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 27, 2019 22:51:24 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 27, 2019 22:56:27 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 28, 2019 1:05:29 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 28, 2019 1:15:26 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Mar 28, 2019 2:28:22 GMT

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 28, 2019 2:41:36 GMT

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 28, 2019 2:46:22 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 28, 2019 4:27:19 GMT

Post by jlebaron13 on Mar 28, 2019 11:26:59 GMT

Post by texasarcher on Mar 28, 2019 22:31:07 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 29, 2019 3:05:54 GMT

Post by SWO_Daddy on Mar 29, 2019 5:12:43 GMT

Quick Reply