Wouldn't it be Main Gunnery Attack rather than Main Battery. Gotta keep the game language after all. Good SA though.
Absolutely! Good catch. In fact, I just scrolled through the SAs and it should always be "main Gunnery attack." I guess we have been doing the cards wrong by capitalizing "Main." Too bad Chesty isn't still here to double-check these.
Spotter - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Ships roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship at range 2 or greater with their main Gunnery attack this turn.
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As to the variant, first, I don't think there is enough difference between them at the resolution of this game. That said, I think the stats for the A2 version cover what we are looking for, and also gives us a plane that was technically available in 1939. But I don't think it is really worth going to the variant level for name on the card, although it wouldn't hurt either I guess.
I do like the Spotter SA; the choice of Aux. BB and CA is all good; but i'd limit it to less ships or just one. I guess its just me, but i think there should be more separation from the Iconic units and the endless realm of expansion. SA's should definitely distinguish units like this, but as I said about the Myrt a lot was done with less
I guess I am fine with the way it is now. The Scout Plane SAs don't limit the number of units that can attack the "spotted" ship either.
I don't differentiate "iconic" units from the rest in game terms. The iconic units are usually easier to do simply because they generally saw action and that helps suggest SAs. That's great. But if we differentiate iconic units by abilities then no other units would be used in tournament play. For me that would make the cards all but useless.
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I do like the Spotter SA; the choice of Aux. BB and CA is all good; but i'd limit it to less ships or just one. I guess its just me, but i think there should be more separation from the Iconic units and the endless realm of expansion. SA's should definitely distinguish units like this, but as I said about the Myrt a lot was done with less
I guess I am fine with the way it is now. The Scout Plane SAs don't limit the number of units that can attack the "spotted" ship either.
I don't differentiate "iconic" units from the rest in game terms. The iconic units are usually easier to do simply because they generally saw action and that helps suggest SAs. That's great. But if we differentiate iconic units by abilities then no other units would be used in tournament play. For me that would make the cards all but useless.
Not to be misunderstood I'm basically saying no problem with reusing great SA's on new units that it fits.
On a unit as this you have to be a little restrictive on what you do put on it so as not to cheapen the SA.
Why i thought Myrt's SA was new and smart, it didn't over play the unit.
The Spotting SA is smart for this unit I'm just probably the one player that thinks
if you have 10 units in range benefiting from it, its a bit much for this unit, i'm assuming it will have other SA's.
I guess I am fine with the way it is now. The Scout Plane SAs don't limit the number of units that can attack the "spotted" ship either.
I don't differentiate "iconic" units from the rest in game terms. The iconic units are usually easier to do simply because they generally saw action and that helps suggest SAs. That's great. But if we differentiate iconic units by abilities then no other units would be used in tournament play. For me that would make the cards all but useless.
Not to be misunderstood I'm basically saying no problem with reusing great SA's on new units that it fits.
On a unit as this you have to be a little restrictive on what you do put on it so as not to cheapen the SA.
Why i thought Myrt's SA was new and smart, it didn't over play the unit.
The Spotting SA is smart for this unit I'm just probably the one player that thinks
if you have 10 units in range benefiting from it, its a bit much for this unit, i'm assuming it will have other SA's.
Will it get Kondor like??
Maybe I am missing what this SA will do that Tone's Scout Cruiser SA doesn't already do? It seems like the same thing to me in practice. This time the SA would be on the actual scouting aircraft. I think it would definitely have a cost implication though.
Also, I would say the Ar 196 is actually one of the "legitimate" iconic naval units in the Kriegsmarine. Compared to a lot of other stuff we have gifted, um, given to the Kriegsmarine in this game. I would kind of like to see the Arado as a genuinely competitive playable unit.
Yeah, my club pretty much voted the Myrt as the best unit in the last deck. Just on "creativity" and potential usefulness. I have to admit I was a little skeptical about it at first. But for distance rules it is really useful.
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I would rather not get that specific. To me the real challenge here is to make it a playable unit. It is so easy to make these bookmarks out of these "peripheral" units.
As for history, the book "The Arado Ar 196 - A Detailed Guide to the Eyes of the Kriegsmarine says every battleship in the Kriegsmarine had an A-1 aboard by the end of 1939. Graf Spee had 2X A-1s on board. I think they were assigned as they were built regardless of variant. Since the BBs all had V-1s, it may be that they didn't get later variants until one needed to be replaced.
To answer you Weeds All carried A1 were replaced by A4 between October to December, 1940 ^^
So we are looking at this for play testing purposes? -------------------------------------------------------------- Ar 196 Germany Aircraft – Fighter 1939 Cost: 9? MG: 2 AA: 5 Bomb: 3 ASW: 2 A/VA/HP: 4/7/1
Sea Basing - This unit can base only in a coast or an island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step.
Spotter - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Ships roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship at range 2 or greater with their main Gunnery attack this turn. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a little shaky on the cost and throwing 9 out there as a starting point, the reasons for the 9 is based off of the combination of the two SAs and that the unit has everything on the attack lines except for Torpedoes. To reduce the cost we could get rid of the MG line, after all this unit would never be used to strafe especially when the Armor line would become a 2/5/1.
Flak, a reroll on a 14+ die attack from a BB could be an huge advantage. I have no idea how you could balance that and still keep the plane affordable.
I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way. - Captain John Paul Jones
I would rather not get that specific. To me the real challenge here is to make it a playable unit. It is so easy to make these bookmarks out of these "peripheral" units.
As for history, the book "The Arado Ar 196 - A Detailed Guide to the Eyes of the Kriegsmarine says every battleship in the Kriegsmarine had an A-1 aboard by the end of 1939. Graf Spee had 2X A-1s on board. I think they were assigned as they were built regardless of variant. Since the BBs all had V-1s, it may be that they didn't get later variants until one needed to be replaced.
To answer you Weeds All carried A1 were replaced by A4 between October to December, 1940 ^^
Thanks!
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So we are looking at this for play testing purposes? -------------------------------------------------------------- Ar 196 Germany Aircraft – Fighter 1939 Cost: 9? MG: 2 AA: 5 Bomb: 3 ASW: 2 A/VA/HP: 4/7/1
Sea Basing - This unit can base only in a coast or an island sector on your side of the map. Don't place a Rearming counter on this unit during your Air Return step.
Spotter - At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose an enemy Ship within range 2. Your Ships roll one extra attack die when attacking that ship at range 2 or greater with their main Gunnery attack this turn. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a little shaky on the cost and throwing 9 out there as a starting point, the reasons for the 9 is based off of the combination of the two SAs and that the unit has everything on the attack lines except for Torpedoes. To reduce the cost we could get rid of the MG line, after all this unit would never be used to strafe especially when the Armor line would become a 2/5/1.
The Machine Gun value is really only going to be used against the Laffey. To me it is just on there to acknowledge it had the capability, like several other fighter/bombers in the game. I don't think it should affect the cost. That said, if we want to take it off it certainly won't affect its playability my much. 9 seems a bit steep for such a weak aircraft. Yes, Spotter is a good SA, but will this aircraft survive very long to use it? It's own native attacks are very weak. Seems more like a 7 to me. Maybe an 8. Compare to the Rufe at 8 points with MG2, AA6, 5/8/1 armor, Night Fighter and Interceptor. The difference in armor values is a pretty big deal IMO.
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My last thought on it;; Spotting and Scout should have a little difference between them, but
for a single word Torpedo-- Main Gun or Gunnery.
True War At Sea is not a simulation, and I guess you can have a AR 196 Spotting for a German fleet action!!!
The AR 196 is possibly the best true German Naval Air unit in WW2
The Myrt was a creative idea. Are we out of new creative ideas?
Just some thoughts for discussion, I think the longer you make these creative minds work
the better the projects outcome;; Temeraire comes mind!!
Well, I still like the idea of giving the +1 only to Main Gunnery attacks at Range 2 or greater. I think that simulates the value of a spotter aircraft more accurately. Maybe its a small thing, but I think it makes it a little more fun to "work it" IMO.
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Here's another idea. These aircraft were used extensively for coastal patrol. What about giving it +1 to AA against enemy aircraft with the Loiter ability?
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Flak, a reroll on a 14+ die attack from a BB could be an huge advantage. I have no idea how you could balance that and still keep the plane affordable.
A 1/3 chance to recall a missed shot isnt anything to build a strategy on. In ideal circumstances it could be decisive, but then can rolling all sixes on a torpedo attack. Its actual impact will be less in most game than a blank cheque +1 but itll be more likely to see gametime if the potential of a good payoff
My last thought on it;; Spotting and Scout should have a little difference between them, but
for a single word Torpedo-- Main Gun or Gunnery.
True War At Sea is not a simulation, and I guess you can have a AR 196 Spotting for a German fleet action!!!
The AR 196 is possibly the best true German Naval Air unit in WW2
The Myrt was a creative idea. Are we out of new creative ideas?
Just some thoughts for discussion, I think the longer you make these creative minds work
the better the projects outcome;; Temeraire comes mind!!
Well, I still like the idea of giving the +1 only to Main Gunnery attacks at Range 2 or greater. I think that simulates the value of a spotter aircraft more accurately. Maybe its a small thing, but I think it makes it a little more fun to "work it" IMO.
I do to;; But let me see if i'm getting this right; a ship 2 sectors for a spotting plane is the target, but
its possible a firing ship can be 4 sectors from the spotting plane only 2 sectors from the spotted ship 20,000 yards 12 miles.
I guess its all in fun and balance;; to me it just seems spotting should be a little more personal than scouting.
Like the Coastal SA really shows as i've read outside of pure Fighters this plane was tough one of the best.
Another good SA for this type of plane is Flares used especially well by the IJN;
Flares; At night any ship in this planes sector does not benefit from the Darkness Rules