PBY-5A Canso *DONE*

waratsea4
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 839

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 3, 2018 20:36:10 GMT

Quote

Post by waratsea4 on Aug 3, 2018 20:36:10 GMT

Aug 3, 2018 17:25:22 GMT au64 said:

Aug 3, 2018 2:27:26 GMT waratsea4 said:

Kind of agree with those that aiding DD's or Boosting the ASW attack, is something not a useful or to redundant with Canadian units

they have a lot of Sub Hunters; high ASW attack die; and Hudsons Lone ASW Hunter; they can kill subs.

Not to be mean or anything but I think you and I are reading a different forum page... Most of the chatter here (including from you) has been with providing the Canso with an ASW boost of some sort. I'm just trying to figure out where this is coming from.

The key is to make this PBY different enough from the others that it will be used but not over shadowed by other PBYs.

Here's how I see the unit shaping up based on discussion so far:

Type: Patrol Bomber

Armor: 3

Vital Armor: 5

Hull: 1

ASW: 2 (possibly 3)

Bomb/Torp: undetermined at this time and not discussed

SAs:

Loiter

Defensive Armament (Proposed)

Other proposed SAs included the following themes:

* Bonus Victory points around Rescue Ops (Aircraft or Surface ships)

* Bonuses to ASW attacks

* Ability to move Auxillary Ships if close to a sub

Out of the options so far on the table I like something around Rescue Ops (or a variant) or a bonus to ASW.

I'll also throw out a new another SA (Based off of Scout Cruiser) at the wall to see if it sticks:

ASW Scout: At the beginning of your Air Attack step, you may choose a local enemy submarine. Your units roll one extra attack die when making attacks against that submarine this turn

If you reread my 2 posts again you will see i never thought boosting ASW attacks is a good way to go with Canada's Canso;;

As i mentioned Canadian units have powerful ASW attack values and it may just be over kill;

I suggested going in a different way; Using the PBY's for what they were Historically about;; spotting SUBs and letting Command know.

My suggestion were using these tools to either allow other attacking units a preroll or warning the convoys so they can scatter;; move away from subs.

Lots of good ideas are mentioned but i prefer and it is JMO, units that are redone several times should get a new flavor or SA, or it just seems like copycatting.

Expansion has come along way we don't have to take 5 Fletchers; 4 Navigatori's; 5 Z class; 4 PBY's; etc. and just mix and match SA's while keep the cost the same,

not that its not OK; but don't you think a little new infusion make them more interesting.

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	PBY-5A Canso DONE Aug 3, 2018 21:17:34 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Aug 3, 2018 21:17:34 GMT Making the Canso anything other than some form of ASW goes directly against its history. What about an ability that moves DDs towards the nearest sub? Or causing a forced dive that would make the sub move a sector away or something
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	PBY-5A Canso DONE Aug 3, 2018 21:46:57 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Aug 3, 2018 21:46:57 GMT Drive Off Sub would be neat.

waratsea4
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 839

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 4, 2018 20:38:02 GMT

Quote

Post by waratsea4 on Aug 4, 2018 20:38:02 GMT

Aug 3, 2018 21:17:34 GMT ticat1 said:

Making the Canso anything other than some form of ASW goes directly against its history.

What about an ability that moves DDs towards the nearest sub?

Or causing a forced dive that would make the sub move a sector away or something

Your first sentence i disagree with;

The USN's PBY Shadow had a lot to do with what those aircraft did Historically and that SA has nothing to with attacking Subs.

Moving DD's to Subs just gives all DD's Sub Hunters;

Making Subs or Letting non ASW Auxiliaries move are a good way to go; Can make for some interesting SA ideas.

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 4, 2018 20:45:52 GMT TrickiVic likes this

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Aug 4, 2018 20:45:52 GMT

Aug 4, 2018 20:38:02 GMT waratsea4 said:

Aug 3, 2018 21:17:34 GMT ticat1 said:

Making the Canso anything other than some form of ASW goes directly against its history.

What about an ability that moves DDs towards the nearest sub?

Or causing a forced dive that would make the sub move a sector away or something

Your first sentence i disagree with;

The USN's PBY Shadow had a lot to do with what those aircraft did Historically and that SA has nothing to with attacking Subs.

Moving DD's to Subs just gives all DD's Sub Hunters;

Making Subs or Letting non ASW Auxiliaries move are a good way to go; Can make for some interesting SA ideas.

I agree that the USN used it the way you're talking. Canada used it almost exclusively as an ASW platform is what I'm saying

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

RH
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 660

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 5, 2018 2:49:01 GMT

Quote

Post by RH on Aug 5, 2018 2:49:01 GMT

If you want to keep it simple yet add something different maybe just leave the points and armour untouched, keep loiter as the prime SA and make it a jack of all trades by including all three of ASW, torpedos and bombs. If anything else Skilled search would be historically accurate. No inniative and no boosts or movements to track.

Ég girðingar því ég hef líka

waratsea4
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 839

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 6, 2018 3:31:07 GMT

Quote

Post by waratsea4 on Aug 6, 2018 3:31:07 GMT

Aug 4, 2018 20:45:52 GMT ticat1 said:

Aug 4, 2018 20:38:02 GMT waratsea4 said:

Your first sentence i disagree with;

The USN's PBY Shadow had a lot to do with what those aircraft did Historically and that SA has nothing to with attacking Subs.

Moving DD's to Subs just gives all DD's Sub Hunters;

Making Subs or Letting non ASW Auxiliaries move are a good way to go; Can make for some interesting SA ideas.

I agree that the USN used it the way you're talking. Canada used it almost exclusively as an ASW platform is what I'm saying

I also agree with that and it should;

As I've been saying Canada has 2 DD's with 6 -- 2 DD's with 5 -- 1 DD and 1 PB that have 4;; thats ASW Attack Die.

This PB will have 3; even one of its Cruisers as an ASW attack; adding an attack bonus gives Canada some power ASW rolls,

why i believe going with a movement SA is different and brings new ideas and challenges to the game without all this overkill.

gaz01 Forumini Lieutenant Posts: 672	PBY-5A Canso DONE Aug 6, 2018 9:03:06 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by gaz01 on Aug 6, 2018 9:03:06 GMT I understand what's being said about the ASW priority but I'm still liking a variation of a post sea movement, limited movement for a certain square at end of sea movement(details in first post). Tactical move based on early recon.
	"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody" "We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"

gaz01
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 672

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 6, 2018 9:27:40 GMT

Quote

Post by gaz01 on Aug 6, 2018 9:27:40 GMT

Jul 19, 2018 16:03:46 GMT gaz01 said:

Trying to think of something relating to the early spotting of jap fleet. Maybe some variation of shadowing, early warning or something. Nearest? (within a certain range, 3?) 1 or maybe 2 friendly ships (same sector) may move (1 or 2) sectors away? from spotted ship(s). Giving a limited move after sea movement phase. Could be helpful if you initially moved first and have been closed with superior forces.

I'm thinking something like:

Early Recon - At the end of the air attack phase, pick an enemy ship within range 2. Two of your units may immediately move 1 sector away from that enemy ship.

It could be the two units to be moved have to be in the same square or within a certain range from the said enemy units or even the cat itself.

Its a little boost for having to go first and gives a little flexibility if closed by superior units when player 2 has moved. I'm thinking as much for smaller units as the big stuff here.

Last Edit: Aug 6, 2018 9:29:14 GMT by gaz01

"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody"

"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 21, 2018 1:16:50 GMT

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Aug 21, 2018 1:16:50 GMT

What do you think of this?

DRIVE OFF SUB: At the end of the Air Attack phase, choose one Submarine this unit attacked this turn. The target must immediately move one sector away from this unit. If that movement isn't possible, you can't use this ability.

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

au64
Deck E playtester

Posts: 1,847

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 21, 2018 13:41:23 GMT

Quote

Post by au64 on Aug 21, 2018 13:41:23 GMT

Aug 21, 2018 1:16:50 GMT ticat1 said:

What do you think of this?

DRIVE OFF SUB: At the end of the Air Attack phase, choose one Submarine this unit attacked this turn. The target must immediately move one sector away from this unit. If that movement isn't possible, you can't use this ability.

I like the idea, however the problem is that (as worded) you can cause the targeted submarine to advance towards your own fleet. Which could be a good think to herd them into your DD Screen.

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

PBY-5A Canso *DONE* Aug 31, 2018 23:25:19 GMT

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Aug 31, 2018 23:25:19 GMT

Canso

Aircraft – Patrol Bomber
1941
MG: -
Bomb: 5 (same as GST)
ASW: 3 (same as PBY)
A/VA/HP: 3/5/1

LOITER: Rearming counters aren't placed on this unit during the Air Return step.

LIGHT DEFENSIVE ARMAMENT: Whenever an enemy Fighter attacks this unit during the Air Defense phase, this unit gets +1 armor this turn.

DRIVE OFF SUB: At the end of the Air Attack phase, choose one Submarine this unit attacked this turn. The target must immediately move one sector away from this unit. If that movement isn't possible, you can't use this ability.

Last Edit: Aug 31, 2018 23:27:56 GMT by ticat1

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

firesdstny Deck E developer Posts: 1,419	PBY-5A Canso DONE Sept 1, 2018 17:29:24 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by firesdstny on Sept 1, 2018 17:29:24 GMT looks ok to me.

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	PBY-5A Canso DONE Sept 2, 2018 3:20:25 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Sept 2, 2018 3:20:25 GMT If the aircraft is local, youd think there woukd always be one adjacent sector to move into. Who makes that choice?

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	PBY-5A Canso DONE Sept 2, 2018 3:48:18 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Sept 2, 2018 3:48:18 GMT Sept 2, 2018 3:20:25 GMT flakstruk said: If the aircraft is local, youd think there woukd always be one adjacent sector to move into. Who makes that choice? The controller of the sub.
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

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PBY-5A Canso DONE

Post by waratsea4 on Aug 3, 2018 20:36:10 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 3, 2018 21:17:34 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Aug 3, 2018 21:46:57 GMT

Post by waratsea4 on Aug 4, 2018 20:38:02 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 4, 2018 20:45:52 GMT

Post by RH on Aug 5, 2018 2:49:01 GMT

Post by waratsea4 on Aug 6, 2018 3:31:07 GMT

Post by gaz01 on Aug 6, 2018 9:03:06 GMT

Post by gaz01 on Aug 6, 2018 9:27:40 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 21, 2018 1:16:50 GMT

Post by au64 on Aug 21, 2018 13:41:23 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 31, 2018 23:25:19 GMT

Post by firesdstny on Sept 1, 2018 17:29:24 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Sept 2, 2018 3:20:25 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Sept 2, 2018 3:48:18 GMT

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