Deck H "Heck or High Water"

Theaetetus
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Deck H "Heck or High Water" Nov 30, 2024 16:18:06 GMT via mobile

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Post by Theaetetus on Nov 30, 2024 16:18:06 GMT

Second Round:

France: Savorgnan da Brazza, historical significance fighting for the Free French Navy in Africa and doing convoy work, has an XPForge mini.
United Kingdom: HMS Fencer variant/Escort carrier
United States: Brooklyn class cruiser, like Tricki Vic suggested; give the Boises and Phoenixes some variety
Germany: Torpedoboot 1940, class participated in Operation Cerberus and escort missions
Italy: Ba.65, early war fighter-bomber, used in Spain and exported abroad to Chile
USSR: Yak-9 for the late-war/advanced fighter
Romania: Bucovina, a monitor for Romania; potentially an amrour 3 unit, which might make it more useful than Sborul (the ~250 ton torpedo boat I could find)

Last Edit: Dec 2, 2024 14:17:21 GMT by Theaetetus

University Student— Lover of Plato, Aristotle, War At Sea, Palestrina, and Mozart

Theaetetus
Forumini Rear Admiral

Posts: 4,967

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Nov 30, 2024 21:20:46 GMT

Quote

Post by Theaetetus on Nov 30, 2024 21:20:46 GMT

I am working on compiling aircraft available to the minor powers (excluding the Netherlands for now, since they do have some aircraft).
The first page has a table with all of the aircraft made by the forums of WotC that were used during the war in a quantity exceeding 15 aircraft (except for Finland, for which I do not have numbers).
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_QRDig2Uzd9oZyxs5WMS10Amu8F_Aq6jIcDHFftot0Y/edit?usp=sharing

There were questions about neutral and minor aircraft for this set, and I hope this is helpful as a guide as we continue to suggest aircraft, and also useful more generally,

University Student— Lover of Plato, Aristotle, War At Sea, Palestrina, and Mozart

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,623	Deck H "Heck or High Water" Nov 30, 2024 21:28:18 GMT via mobile Theaetetus likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Nov 30, 2024 21:28:18 GMT Thanks Theaetetus, your speed sheet has saved me time as I was diving into it.

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,917	Deck H "Heck or High Water" Nov 30, 2024 23:33:11 GMT Theaetetus likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Nov 30, 2024 23:33:11 GMT Just be mindful of postwar transfers of older aircraft

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,623	Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 1, 2024 2:13:21 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Dec 1, 2024 2:13:21 GMT You are missing the Polish planes P-11 fighter P-23 karas

squint181
Forumini Captain

Posts: 1,816

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 1, 2024 2:14:38 GMT Theaetetus likes this

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Post by squint181 on Dec 1, 2024 2:14:38 GMT

A few ideas

Soviet

Have a few float plane options that will help with their lack or carriers.

Fighter: Beriev Be-2 or Polikarpov Po-2 (U2-M Float Plane Version) Neither are too potant, but with Seabasing they will help.
Patrol Bomber: Beriev Be-4 (ASW with Loiter) or Ilyushin Il-4 (DB-4T Torpedo Equiped with floats)

Submarine: Lemit, the Immortal submarine.

Minelayer: Marti or Komentrin Either with Lay Minefield SA

Fighter: Mig 3 or Yak-1 (Early war domestic fighter)

But if there is anything the Soviets need, its that mid 50 point battlship that bridges the point gab between the Izmail/Kronshtadt and the Soyuz Class. I would suggest the KB-4 Type A desing. But the 1937 early Soyuz design or the UP-41 Italian desing (Marcantonio Colonna) would work.

Romania

Heinkel He 114B
HMS Gorgon (What if the British sold it to them in the 1920's)

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flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,917

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 1, 2024 8:02:57 GMT

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Dec 1, 2024 8:02:57 GMT

Nov 29, 2024 12:44:09 GMT flakstruk said:

01 AUSTRALIA
Submarine : Variation of fleet archetypes.
Vultee Veangence - Dive Bomber - used in Indies/New Guinea - unique aircraft

02 <free>

03 BRAZIL
destroyer : maintain ABC balance
Jurua – DD (H class ) - another "modern" destroyer class for Brazil

04 CANADA
Commander (tbd) resilience on objective, Commander//Next minor allied nation one that deserves it. Aggressive DD focus, would make some good discussion

05 FRANCE
06 FRANCE
07 FRANCE
08 FRANCE
09 FRANCE
Dixmude - enhance air archetypes
Potez 630/631 -- heavy fighter
Jeanne d'Arc - Jeanne d'Arc class CL - unique cruiser class without a card
Savorgnan da Brazza, historical significance fighting for the Free French Navy in Africa and doing convoy work, has an XPForge mini. (Dumont d'urville sister)

10 GREECE
Bretange class Battleship - resilience on objectives

11 <free>

12 NETHERLANDS
13 NETHERLANDS
goulden leeuw sister battleship - resilence on objectives
D.XXI -- give the Dutch a native fighter
Hr. Ms. Van Kinsbergan - DD/sloop built for, and fought in, the West Indies

14 NEW ZEALAND
Arabatus - historical option

15 NORWAY
Nomad Seaplane - historical option, N-3PB Nomad - fighter, bomber, ASW floatplane - versatile aircraft for Norway

16 POLAND
303Sq Hurricane - basic fighter

17 UK
18 UK
19 UK
20 UK
21 UK
22 UK
23 UK
24 UK
25 UK
26 UK
CAM Ship -- Auxiliary with a nice AA attack
Avro Anson - patrol bomber - widely used early war ASW

HMS Fencer variant/Escort carrier

27 USA
28 USA
29 USA
30 USA
31 USA
32 USA
33 USA
34 USA
35 USA
36 USA
37 USA
USS Hutchins -- A Fletcher class DD present at Surigao Strait, but mostly I would just like a high end (9-10 point) damage dealer from the Fletcher class, maybe with Torpedo Savlo or Opening Salvo
USS Tautog - Tambor class submarine - bring Defective Torp 1 SA to subs (also NOT another Gato/Balao)
4-Stacker (whipple, ford, pope)
Brooklyn class cruiser, like Tricki Vic suggested; give the Boises and Phoenixes some variety

38 USSR
39 USSR
40 USSR
SU - Komintern - last Black seas fleet "cruiser"
Almaz/Orlitza/... -- The Imperial Russian Navy had a superb floatplane carrier group in the Black Sea, one of these could make for an interesting Auxiliary
Fighter// Highly suggest a native Soviet aircraft instead of another lend lease
Yak-9 for the late-war/advanced fighter

41 FINLAND
Vesihiisi - sub (similar to German Type VII - U-47/552 reprint)
Commander - resilience on objectives, Commander//Nation has been in the game for a long time, they deserve to be next nation for a commander

42 GERMANY
43 GERMANY
44 GERMANY
45 GERMANY
46 GERMANY
47 GERMANY
MS Schwabenland, Seaplane tender
Grille (Hitler's Yacht)
Gneisenau 15in rebuild - BB (lengthened, better AA, no torps) upgrade was actually half-way completed
commander - wolfpack or stuka ace?
BRUMMER cruiser minelayer 3 7 3 decent guns 7 7 6 5?aa6-7
Niobe …. Hear me out make it an armour 5-6 7 3 AA ship that gains AA specialist and/or even range 1 AA. It would have speed but a placement SA. Cheap protection for your ships
Freya Anti-Air Radar -- An AA/Radar installation, perhaps with Atlantikwall synergy
Torpedoboot 1940, class participated in Operation Cerberus and escort missions

48 ITALY
49 ITALY
50 ITALY
51 ITALY
52 ITALY
53 ITALY
Fiat RS.14 - Patrol Bomber (float plane ASW) - purpose-built ASW 3 patrol bomber 1941
marc antony sister - resilience on objectives
Francesco Crespi -- MTB/MAS boat support
Ba.65, early war fighter-bomber, used in Spain and exported abroad to Chile

54 JAPAN
55 JAPAN
58 JAPAN
57 JAPAN
58 JAPAN
59 JAPAN
60 JAPAN
61 JAPAN
62 JAPAN
63 JAPAN
Yugure - DD (Hatsuharu class only missing class) Battle of Kolombagara - helped sink Gwin, damage Honolulu and St. Louis
JA - Ibuki CA - big option actually started.
Niizuki -- Another Akizuki class DD, scored the longest range torpedo hit of WW2

64 ROMANIA
250T torpedo boat - recommended by Rav/expand fleet
Bucovina, a monitor for Romania; potentially an amrour 3 unit

65 SIAM
Commander - resilience on objectives

66 ARGENTINA
Santa Fe - Santa Fe class sub (new) - Argentina needs a sub
destroyer - per brazil

67 CHILE

68 SPAIN
Republican/Nationalist commanders - neutral units can be included in any fleet so a destroyer and cruiser commander from either SCS side would 2 options for everyone
Mendez Nunez AA refit -- this would provide Gray AA and add another universal utility cruiser

69 SWEDEN
Aran Class Coast defence ship - bigger class than oscar

70 TURKEY
TU - Hamidiye - resilence on objectives

71 <Free>
72 NEUTRAL
Beachhead installation - landing on players map side
Sub Pen or PT Base

To avoid 'stuffing of the ballot box'
Please nominate 1 unit or unit type per nation only and a brief reasoning for it, for the benefit of others.

You'll have future opportunity to make additional suggestions and probably run off voting. I simply cannot keep up with massive shopping lists.

You can now make second round suggestions.
1 per fleet please

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,917

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 1, 2024 9:12:43 GMT

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Dec 1, 2024 9:12:43 GMT

My second round

France - support jean d'arc
Netherlands - sumatra, historical cruiser
Uk - malta class carrier, hypothetical large carrier
Uk - uss augusta, historical cruiser
It - attilio regulo - light cruiser, flotilla leader/guard the flotilla (sinking of roma)
Japan - support yugure

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,623	Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 1, 2024 9:22:47 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Dec 1, 2024 9:22:47 GMT Tie bomber either Martin or Ann Ratskonsindra The Romanian river Monitor was made to be ocean going, and was engaged several times throughout the war. Is definitely armour 3 at least

squint181 Forumini Captain Posts: 1,816	Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 1, 2024 18:01:32 GMT hmsartemis likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by squint181 on Dec 1, 2024 18:01:32 GMT Didn't see the nomination rules till now. Round 2 Soviet: KB-4 Type A design to get a 50pt-ish BB Romania: HMS Gorgon (What if the British sold it to them in the 1920's)
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weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,218

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 2, 2024 5:38:01 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Dec 2, 2024 5:38:01 GMT

Nov 30, 2024 21:20:46 GMT Theaetetus said:

I am working on compiling aircraft available to the minor powers (excluding the Netherlands for now, since they do have some aircraft).
The first page has a table with all of the aircraft made by the forums of WotC that were used during the war in a quantity exceeding 15 aircraft (except for Finland, for which I do not have numbers).
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_QRDig2Uzd9oZyxs5WMS10Amu8F_Aq6jIcDHFftot0Y/edit?usp=sharing

There were questions about neutral and minor aircraft for this set, and I hope this is helpful as a guide as we continue to suggest aircraft, and also useful more generally,

Very cool!

Thank you

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weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,218

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 2, 2024 7:52:14 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Dec 2, 2024 7:52:14 GMT

Second Round

Australia

Brazil

Canada

France
La Melpomène - La Melpomène class Torpedo boat - Operation Dynamo, operation Torch, and Operations Overlord and Dragoon

Netherlands

Norway

Poland

United Kingdom
HMS Malaya – QE class BB* - Battle of Calabria and Operation Berlin

United States
USS Suwanee - Sangamon class CVE - Operation Torch and Taffy 1

Soviet Union

Lavochkin La-5 or La-7 - solid Soviet fighter La-5 introduced 1942, La-7 in 1944

Finland

Germany

MV Burgenland - Auxiliary (freighter blockade runner sunk by Omaha and Jouette) Class of 6 ships for unlimited class numbers

Italy

Enrico Tazzoli - Calvi Class sub (3 in class) Second most successful Italian sub (18 ships sunk) - new ocean going class for the Italians

Japan

Katori - light (training) cruiser - flagship of the IJN submarine fleet

Thailand

Martin B-10 patrol bomber (also Argentina, Turkey, and Netherlands

Argentina

Spain

Jupiter - Jupiter class gunboat/minelayer

Notes:

La Melpomène was a class of 630 ton (Spica sized) torpedo boats. Twelve built in the mid-30's. Fast, but light. La Melpomène was evidently a very busy ship at Dunkirk, supporting landings, and escorting coastal convoys. Something different and unique for France. Not a power unit by any stretch.

USS Suwannee - probably the best escort carriers in the USN. Very active from Torch to the end of the war in the Pacific. NOT another Essex class!

La-5 - solid Soviet made fighter early-mid war introduction

MV Burgenland - yet another pitch at giving Germany a unique auxiliary freighter to complement the Italian Pietro, British Melbourne Star, Japanese Kinai Maru, American Liberty and Victory.

Enrico Tazzoli - one of the ocean-going Italian subs to operate in the Atlantic

Last Edit: Dec 2, 2024 7:54:32 GMT by weedsrock2

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weedsrock2
Administrator

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Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 2, 2024 21:50:22 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Dec 2, 2024 21:50:22 GMT

I will give a second to the Brooklyn class CL. We had a US CA in the last deck.

USS Nashville (Flagship a lot of the time) or USS Honolulu (participated in many of the Solomon Islands battles)

The Polish "what-if" PZL.50 would be better than the PZL.11 or PZL,24. It still wouldn't be a world beater, but at least somewhat useful early war. Only a prototype of the PZL.50 was completed.

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flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,917	Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 2, 2024 22:49:25 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Dec 2, 2024 22:49:25 GMT It seems superflous to use a never operational polish fighter when they ordereed, and used in exile hurricanes withgreat results

TrickiVic
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 733

Deck H "Heck or High Water" Dec 3, 2024 2:46:45 GMT

Quote

Post by TrickiVic on Dec 3, 2024 2:46:45 GMT

Nov 29, 2024 12:37:04 GMT flakstruk said:

China is a non starter.

I asked for 1 per nation too. We're not in a rush, and we'll have multiple rounds.

It was late, I wasnèt really paying attention. Okay. I will do better

01 AUSTRALIA
02 <free> ROC torpedo boat or cruiser//Ning Hai always seems to be brought up as good ship to put in. And maybe we can honor Sir_Valentine in the history write portion on the back

03 BRAZIL
04 CANADA - Commander//Next minor allied nation one that deserves it. Aggressive DD focus, would make some good discussion

05 FRANCE -
10 GREECE
11 <free>

12 NETHERLANDS
14 NEW ZEALAND
15 NORWAY - I see the N-3PB Nomad suggested a lot. A quick Google search shows it was extensively used by Norwegian Air Force
16 POLAND - Fighter PZL P.11 or Another Spitfire variant? A native aircraft or mid-war aircraft would be good candidate
25 UK - HMS Starling//Was dropped in Deck G. Purpose adding it again as candidate for Deck H. UK lacks small escort ships, very famous for sinking 14 u-boats
28 USA - Brooklyn Class//Shifting away from Cleveland Class, an underrepresented light cruiser class. All ships had long careers, fought many famous battles across various theatres of war. Forumini has USS Helena CL 49, WOTC has Phoenix CL 46 and Boise CL 47
38 USSR - Fighter// Highly suggest a native Soviet aircraft instead of another lend lease. Like a Mig 3 or La 7
41 FINLAND - Commander//Nation has been in the game for a long time, they deserve to be next nation for a commander
45 GERMANY - Commander//I focus this one on submarines. Wolfpack, submarine leader, evasion special abilities, rerolling attacks
48 ITALY -
59 JAPAN - Ki 61 "Tony"//High altitude bomber interceptor that was late in the war but could be useful against the powerful bomber swarms of USA currently in the game
69 SWEDEN

70 TURKEY

71 <Free>

72 NEUTRAL - Sub Pen or PT Base

Erwin Rommel - "Give me American supply lines, British planes, German officers and Canadian troops, and I can take over the world".

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Deck H "Heck or High Water"

Post by Theaetetus on Nov 30, 2024 16:18:06 GMT

Post by Theaetetus on Nov 30, 2024 21:20:46 GMT

Post by raevski on Nov 30, 2024 21:28:18 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Nov 30, 2024 23:33:11 GMT

Post by raevski on Dec 1, 2024 2:13:21 GMT

Post by squint181 on Dec 1, 2024 2:14:38 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Dec 1, 2024 8:02:57 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Dec 1, 2024 9:12:43 GMT

Post by raevski on Dec 1, 2024 9:22:47 GMT

Post by squint181 on Dec 1, 2024 18:01:32 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Dec 2, 2024 5:38:01 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Dec 2, 2024 7:52:14 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Dec 2, 2024 21:50:22 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Dec 2, 2024 22:49:25 GMT

Post by TrickiVic on Dec 3, 2024 2:46:45 GMT

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