Olterra is not historically significant, it has name recognition and nothing else. Its cool in the boys own adventure sense but utimately did virtually nothing to change the course of the war.
Mechanically Sirce already has a premptive attack.
If that's why the sub was in then fair enough. Just one of those units with a meh history. It will be well down the u boat pecking order I would imagine when cards are picked.
I'm sure the Italians would disagree with you! A lot of stuff could be said to have not ultimately changed the course of the war but it helped have an effect on a little area of it. Bound to be some cross over with abilities as others are. It's in that bracket of a unit that would be used by some like a lot of aux pieces, hypos, neutral, etc. Its just an option when we are trying to fill out the Italians. Compared to a what if unit, it wins historically all day long. Depends what people want at this stage I guess.
"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody"
"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"
I wouldn't cry if the US didn't get another Essex in this deck. I would like to see another Tambor class sub with the "Defective Torpedoes 1" SA in place of the DT2. The Tambors were the class before the Gato/Balao's so they are good candidates for the DT SA.
Personally, I am surprised you didn't start the list from scratch and work country-by-country like before. The board is not the same as the last time that list was worked on. Now that Deck G is out and finalized I think it would better to start fresh. You could list the units proposed in the list as "starting suggestions" without committing anything to a slot just yet in each country. I do think it would be a good idea to decide what countries are going to get a Commander up-front so we know how many slots we are working with for the other units. We don't have to decide who the Commander is yet (but we could if we want), just which country is going to get one.
01 AUSTRALIA 02 <free> 03 BRAZIL 04 CANADA 05 FRANCE 06 FRANCE 07 FRANCE 08 FRANCE 09 FRANCE 10 GREECE 11 <free> 12 NETHERLANDS 13 NETHERLANDS 14 NEW ZEALAND 15 NORWAY 16 POLAND 17 UK 18 UK 19 UK 20 UK 21 UK 22 UK 23 UK 24 UK 25 UK 26 UK 27 USA 28 USA 29 USA 30 USA 31 USA 32 USA 33 USA 34 USA 35 USA 36 USA 37 USA 38 USSR 39 USSR 40 USSR 41 FINLAND 42 GERMANY 43 GERMANY 44 GERMANY 45 GERMANY 46 GERMANY 47 GERMANY 48 ITALY 49 ITALY 50 ITALY 51 ITALY 52 ITALY 53 ITALY 54 JAPAN 55 JAPAN 58 JAPAN 57 JAPAN 58 JAPAN 59 JAPAN 60 JAPAN 61 JAPAN 62 JAPAN 63 JAPAN 64 ROMANIA 65 SIAM 66 ARGENTINA 67 CHILE 68 SPAIN 69 SWEDEN 70 TURKEY 71 <Free> 72 NEUTRAL
AU - Submarine : Variation of fleet archetypes.
BZ - destroyer : maintain ABC balance
CA - Commander (tbd) resilience on objectives
FR - Dixmude - enhance air archetypes
GR - Bretange class Battleship - resilience on objectives
NE - goulden leeuw sister battleship - resilience on objectives
NZ - Arabatus - historical option
NO - Nomad Seaplane - historical option
PO - 303Sq Hurricane - basic fighter
UK - (no suggestion)
US - (no suggestion)
SU - Komintern - last Black seas fleet "cruiser"
FI - Commander - resilience on objectives
GE - commander - wolfpack
IY - marc antony sister - resilience on objectives
JA - Ibuki CA - big option actually started.
RO - 250T torpedo boat - recommended by Rav/expand fleet
SI - Commander - resilience on objectives
AR - destroyer - per brazil
CH - forgo this fleet
SP - Republican/Nationalist commanders - neutral units can be included in any fleet so a destroyer and cruiser commander from either SCS side would 2 options for everyone
SW - Aran Class Coast defence ship - bigger class than oscar
- Niobe …. Hear me out make it an armour 5-6 7 3 AA ship that gains AA specialist and/or even range 1 AA. It would have speed but a placement SA. Cheap protection for your ships
United States: USS Hutchins -- A Fletcher class DD present at Surigao Strait, but mostly I would just like a high end (9-10 point) damage dealer from the Fletcher class, maybe with Torpedo Savlo or Opening Salvo
Japan: Niizuki -- Another Akizuki class DD, scored the longest range torpedo hit of WW2
United Kingdom: CAM Ship -- Auxiliary with a nice AA attack
Germany: Freya Anti-Air Radar -- An AA/Radar installation, perhaps with Atlantikwall synergy
Italy: Francesco Crespi -- MTB/MAS boat support
France: Potez 630/631 -- heavy fighter
USSR: Almaz/Orlitza/... -- The Imperial Russian Navy had a superb floatplane carrier group in the Black Sea, one of these could make for an interesting Auxiliary (Russia currently has 0 auxiliaries)
Netherlands: D.XXI -- give the Dutch a native fighter
Spain: Mendez Nunez AA refit -- this would provide Gray AA and add another universal utility cruiser
Australia
Vultee Veangence - Dive Bomber - used in Indies/New Guinea - unique aircraft
Brazil
Jurua – DD (H class ) - another "modern" destroyer class for Brazil
Canada
-
France
Jeanne d'Arc - Jeanne d'Arc class CL - unique cruiser class without a card
Netherlands
Hr. Ms. Van Kinsbergan - DD/sloop built for, and fought in, the West Indies
Germany - BRUMMER cruiser minelayer 3 7 3 decent guns 7 7 6 5?aa6-7 - Niobe …. Hear me out make it an armour 5-6 7 3 AA ship that gains AA specialist and/or even range 1 AA. It would have speed but a placement SA. Cheap protection for your ships -
My nominations AU - Submarine : Variation of fleet archetypes. BZ - destroyer : maintain ABC balance CA - Commander (tbd) resilience on objectives FR - Dixmude - enhance air archetypes GR - Bretange class Battleship - resilience on objectives NE - goulden leeuw sister battleship - resilience on objectives NZ - Arabatus - historical option NO - Nomad Seaplane - historical option PO - 303Sq Hurricane - basic fighter UK - (no suggestion) US - (no suggestion) SU - Komintern - last Black seas fleet "cruiser"
FI - Commander - resilience on objectives GE - commander - wolfpack IY - marc antony sister - resilience on objectives JA - Ibuki CA - big option actually started. RO - 250T torpedo boat - recommended by Rav/expand fleet SI - Commander - resilience on objectives
AR - destroyer - per brazil CH - forgo this fleet SP - Republican/Nationalist commanders - neutral units can be included in any fleet so a destroyer and cruiser commander from either SCS side would 2 options for everyone SW - Aran Class Coast defence ship - bigger class than oscar TU - Hamidiye - resilence on objectives
NU Installation "Beachead" allows for use of landing type SAs on players side of the board
I have put the units I would most like to see below in a spoiler.
A propos Admirals: they should be more utilised this set. Admirals provide us with a means of doing operational variants of large ships, but on a larger scale since an Admiral can be attached to any ship. It can also add significant depth to fleet building, with Admirals essentially serving as upgrades. Thus a navy like Italy's, which has only 9 CA cards, can be thought of currently as having closer to 18 options if Alberto da Zara is included. The equivalence is not precise, but it does approximate the explosion of possibilities. Two more Admirals for the US, Japan, and the UK, and one more for Germany and Italy would put all of those countries in a much better position with regard to the filling out of unit slots and ensuring a balance of units with regard to class limits and historicity.
United States: USS Hutchins -- A Fletcher class DD present at Surigao Strait, but mostly I would just like a high end (9-10 point) damage dealer from the Fletcher class, maybe with Torpedo Savlo or Opening Salvo Japan: Niizuki -- Another Akizuki class DD, scored the longest range torpedo hit of WW2 United Kingdom: CAM Ship -- Auxiliary with a nice AA attack Germany: Freya Anti-Air Radar -- An AA/Radar installation, perhaps with Atlantikwall synergy Italy: Francesco Crespi -- MTB/MAS boat support France: Potez 630/631 -- heavy fighter USSR: Almaz/Orlitza/... -- The Imperial Russian Navy had a superb floatplane carrier group in the Black Sea, one of these could make for an interesting Auxiliary (Russia currently has 0 auxiliaries) Netherlands: D.XXI -- give the Dutch a native fighter Spain: Mendez Nunez AA refit -- this would provide Gray AA and add another universal utility cruiser
University Student— Lover of Plato, Aristotle, War At Sea, Palestrina, and Mozart
I think you should just call this the "Forumini Auxiliary Deck."
You know what? I think we should do that deck eventually. Do like a 48-54 card set with just basic transports of every type and a few unique named ones in there as well. That would be awesome!
Would love to see how we would stat one of those concrete transports...
Last Edit: Nov 25, 2024 18:00:53 GMT by texasarcher
The hard part about picking just one is "do I pick one that is personally interesting that nobody else may nominate, or do I pick one that I think will be popular to a larger audience (powerful and big)." We need both, but I can only pick one so I will lean toward my personal interest for my first pick. Countries left blank do not have a priority to me over the second picks I would make for the countries I did pick for right now. Also, I do not have a personal interest in the commander cards so I leave those to you guys.
Australia Vultee Veangence - Dive Bomber - used in Indies/New Guinea - unique aircraft
Brazil Jurua – DD (H class ) - another "modern" destroyer class for Brazil
Canada -
France Jeanne d'Arc - Jeanne d'Arc class CL - unique cruiser class without a card
Netherlands Hr. Ms. Van Kinsbergan - DD/sloop built for, and fought in, the West Indies
I was looking for a fighter for Brazil. It is amazing how many P-36 (and variants) were sold around the world. The only other credible fighter Brazil had was the P-47 from 1944. And it was used in Italy for the ground war.
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I was looking for a fighter for Brazil. It is amazing how many P-36 (and variants) were sold around the world. The only other credible fighter Brazil had was the P-47 from 1944. And it was used in Italy for the ground war.
Yes, i was frustrated to realise we missed it with deck g hawk. Would have covered them and argentina.
I have put the units I would most like to see below in a spoiler.
A propos Admirals: they should be more utilised this set. Admirals provide us with a means of doing operational variants of large ships, but on a larger scale since an Admiral can be attached to any ship. It can also add significant depth to fleet building, with Admirals essentially serving as upgrades. Thus a navy like Italy's, which has only 9 CA cards, can be thought of currently as having closer to 18 options if Alberto da Zara is included. The equivalence is not precise, but it does approximate the explosion of possibilities. Two more Admirals for the US, Japan, and the UK, and one more for Germany and Italy would put all of those countries in a much better position with regard to the filling out of unit slots and ensuring a balance of units with regard to class limits and historicity.
I don't really have an appetite for commanders being a big part of the deck. Im not personally comfortable with treating them like plug-and-play upgrades.
I think there a couple of navies where commanders are good choices, siam: where there are virtually no other reasonable options. Finland: somewhat similar to siam Canada: which is on cusp of solid self sufficiency
Canada also works in the sense of the wider commonwealth sense. Giving uk the a cruiser (au) and dd commander (can) as well as thier bb guy Germany could make a case on that basis for Hans-Ulrich Rudel, who'd also be thematic for finland and romania.
US and IJN are so far ahead of most other navies. I dont feel there is strong need for additional upgrades.
As i noted in my first list of proposals, we could do 2 neutral spanish commanders: Nationalist Manuel Vierna Belando(cruisers) Republican Luis González de Ubieta (destroyers) Which would add 2 extra options for ever fleet under the normal rules.