IJN Hiyodori *Done*

weedsrock2
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IJN Hiyodori *Done* Mar 30, 2019 2:34:59 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 30, 2019 2:34:59 GMT

So I propose this "straw man" to work from now. I added RAEVSKI's stat corrections and reduced the torps to range 2. I think it is definitely a cost 6 DD now.

IJN Hiyodori
Ship - Destroyer
1936
Cost: 6
Speed: 2
MG: 3-2-2
AA: 4
ASW: 4
TT: 1-1-1
A/VA/HP: 1/5/2

Sub-Hunter - At the end of the second player's Sea Movement step, you may place this unit in an adjacent sector that contains an enemy Submarine

Coordinated ASW - During your Air Attack step, if a friendly aircraft makes an ASW attack against an enemy Submarine, this unit rolls one extra attack die when making ASW attacks against that enemy Submarine this turn.

Last Edit: Mar 30, 2019 2:37:47 GMT by weedsrock2

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weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 5,199	IJN Hiyodori Done Mar 30, 2019 2:35:35 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 30, 2019 2:35:35 GMT Note I got the thread taken out of the general announcements. Not sure how it got there.
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weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 5,199	IJN Hiyodori Done Mar 30, 2019 2:37:24 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 30, 2019 2:37:24 GMT As proposed I think it would make a nice little ASW unit (or two) to drop in the Advance Naval Base
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ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	IJN Hiyodori Done Mar 30, 2019 4:30:12 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Mar 30, 2019 4:30:12 GMT Mar 30, 2019 2:35:35 GMT weedsrock2 said: Note I got the thread taken out of the general announcements. Not sure how it got there. Thank you. No idea how it happened and I couldn't figure out how to undo it
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

au64
Deck E playtester

Posts: 1,847

IJN Hiyodori *Done* Apr 4, 2019 14:36:04 GMT

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Post by au64 on Apr 4, 2019 14:36:04 GMT

Playtested this against ABDA the other day, and let's be clear... there is absolutely nothing sexy about this unit.

It is a second cheap tin can for the IJN and does what is expected of it, the issue I ran into was trying to select a decent Aircraft with ASW to pair with it. The IJN only have 2 aircraft with an ASW of 3 and 4 with a value of 2. If you expand it out to all Axis ASW aircraft, you are only adding 6 more aircraft with a 2 ASW value. This makes the Coordinated ASW a very difficult SA to utilize.

Between this and the Harukaze (also 6 points), I don't see anyone taking this unit above it. Unless we make changes, I would almost consider putting it at 5 points... something the IJN does not have (a 5pt DD).

brigman Forumini Admiral Posts: 14,196	IJN Hiyodori Done Apr 4, 2019 15:38:57 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by brigman on Apr 4, 2019 15:38:57 GMT I agree that nobody would take this over Harukaze - EXCEPT to put on the Advanced Naval Base. That has a 5 VA limit, which precludes the Harukaze. Not sure that makes it worthwhile.
	Last Edit: Apr 4, 2019 15:39:21 GMT by brigman

ticat1
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IJN Hiyodori *Done* Apr 4, 2019 17:10:58 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Apr 4, 2019 17:10:58 GMT

Apr 4, 2019 14:36:04 GMT au64 said:

Playtested this against ABDA the other day, and let's be clear... there is absolutely nothing sexy about this unit.

It is a second cheap tin can for the IJN and does what is expected of it, the issue I ran into was trying to select a decent Aircraft with ASW to pair with it. The IJN only have 2 aircraft with an ASW of 3 and 4 with a value of 2. If you expand it out to all Axis ASW aircraft, you are only adding 6 more aircraft with a 2 ASW value. This makes the Coordinated ASW a very difficult SA to utilize.

Between this and the Harukaze (also 6 points), I don't see anyone taking this unit above it. Unless we make changes, I would almost consider putting it at 5 points... something the IJN does not have (a 5pt DD).

Why does it make the SA difficult to use? Because of limited selection of aircraft? I'd say this would pair up well with the Emily.

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-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

weedsrock2
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Posts: 5,199

IJN Hiyodori *Done* Apr 5, 2019 3:59:26 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Apr 5, 2019 3:59:26 GMT

Apr 4, 2019 15:38:57 GMT brigman said:

I agree that nobody would take this over Harukaze - EXCEPT to put on the Advanced Naval Base. That has a 5 VA limit, which precludes the Harukaze.

Not sure that makes it worthwhile.

This unit was selected because of a request a few decks ago for a Vital 5 DD to use with the Advanced Naval Base. Harukaze was selected by voting and only later discovered to be a vital 6 DD so it ended up not filling the slot that was intended. It's "niche" by design is to be an early sub hunter against a sub fleet build. So if it isn't paired with the Advanced Naval Base at a minimum it isn't going to be worth much. Plus your opponent has to bring subs in their build!

I think it fills that niche very nicely. The range 2 torpedo is also good, and unusual, for DDs in this class.

I just looked at Hap's spreadsheet and it looks like this one leans a little closer to 6 than to 5. Most of the DD's similar to this one have a cost of 6.

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brigman Forumini Admiral Posts: 14,196	IJN Hiyodori Done Apr 5, 2019 5:21:27 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by brigman on Apr 5, 2019 5:21:27 GMT Makes sense, and it does fill that niche. The only other IJN DD you can put on the ANB is the Type 13 Subchaser, IIRC... so there's that.

au64 Deck E playtester Posts: 1,847	IJN Hiyodori Done Apr 5, 2019 13:50:18 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by au64 on Apr 5, 2019 13:50:18 GMT So my question to the group is why not just pull the Coordinated ASW and make it 5 points?

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	IJN Hiyodori Done Apr 6, 2019 1:46:23 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 6, 2019 1:46:23 GMT Its a small fleet destroyer, 6 is reasonable. The ASW boost is worth the fraction of a point. Especially if youve got squishy carriers to protect

weedsrock2
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IJN Hiyodori *Done* Apr 6, 2019 5:22:31 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Apr 6, 2019 5:22:31 GMT

Apr 5, 2019 13:50:18 GMT au64 said:

So my question to the group is why not just pull the Coordinated ASW and make it 5 points?

Because I would like it to also be a fun unit that you might actually want to put in your build. I don't think it is a broken SA by any means. You have to pay the points for an ASW aircraft and double them up against a sub to make it work. But it can be good if you all your ducks line up. That's when it is fun and your opponent (who wasn't paying attention) jumps up and yell's "cheese" (even though it isn't).

It's a pretty solid 6 pointer according to Hap's spreadsheet (sort on 5 and 6 point DDs). I'm not sure eliminating that SA would make it a clean 5 pointer anyway. More like 5.5 "on the bubble."

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au64 Deck E playtester Posts: 1,847	IJN Hiyodori Done Apr 7, 2019 0:20:02 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by au64 on Apr 7, 2019 0:20:02 GMT Don't get me wrong, I don't think the unit or SA is broken by any means... I just don't see anyone choosing this unit over other choices, unless it is a niche scenario. I just see it sitting in people's binders 99.99999% of the time.

weedsrock2
Administrator

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IJN Hiyodori *Done* Apr 7, 2019 0:56:45 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Apr 7, 2019 0:56:45 GMT

Apr 7, 2019 0:20:02 GMT au64 said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't think the unit or SA is broken by any means... I just don't see anyone choosing this unit over other choices, unless it is a niche scenario. I just see it sitting in people's binders 99.99999% of the time.

I don't think it could be anything else. But our club guys do sometimes use the Advanced Naval Base with the Sammy B. or the John Butler. They make a good combo against a sub build. Butler is also interesting for forward deploying a Smoke Screen.

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flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	IJN Hiyodori Done Apr 7, 2019 1:35:05 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 7, 2019 1:35:05 GMT A point wont change that
	Last Edit: Apr 7, 2019 1:35:24 GMT by flakstruk

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IJN Hiyodori Done

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 30, 2019 2:34:59 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 30, 2019 2:35:35 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Mar 30, 2019 2:37:24 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Mar 30, 2019 4:30:12 GMT

Post by au64 on Apr 4, 2019 14:36:04 GMT

Post by brigman on Apr 4, 2019 15:38:57 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Apr 4, 2019 17:10:58 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Apr 5, 2019 3:59:26 GMT

Post by brigman on Apr 5, 2019 5:21:27 GMT

Post by au64 on Apr 5, 2019 13:50:18 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 6, 2019 1:46:23 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Apr 6, 2019 5:22:31 GMT

Post by au64 on Apr 7, 2019 0:20:02 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Apr 7, 2019 0:56:45 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 7, 2019 1:35:05 GMT

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