Post by itslesserknown on Jul 18, 2023 12:33:46 GMT
For what it’s worth I strongly support the inclusion of the Brazilian river monitor. I think river monitors, and small brown water craft in general, get slept on in lieu of their bigger blue water cousins. Though I get why it doesn’t make much sense to include them in a game about sea-going vessels.
Has the forum ever considered vessels of the (admittedly short lived) Chinese Navy? The Republic of China had a very small fleet of like 8 war ships, mostly brown water craft, all horrendously outdated (1890’s era), that they tried to use to slow down the Japanese invasion in the early war. They were almost all entirely sunk by Japanese aviation. But I think it’s a neat concept to build off of. That’s just me, though - I like historical oddities and underdogs!
For what it’s worth I strongly support the inclusion of the Brazilian river monitor. I think river monitors, and small brown water craft in general, get slept on in lieu of their bigger blue water cousins. Though I get why it doesn’t make much sense to include them in a game about sea-going vessels.
Has the forum ever considered vessels of the (admittedly short lived) Chinese Navy? The Republic of China had a very small fleet of like 8 war ships, mostly brown water craft, all horrendously outdated (1890’s era), that they tried to use to slow down the Japanese invasion in the early war. They were almost all entirely sunk by Japanese aviation. But I think it’s a neat concept to build off of. That’s just me, though - I like historical oddities and underdogs!
It has been talked about for ages on the Forumini. There is Yasoshima which kinda including China in the game. Though under a Imperial Japan flag. P-36 flies under many flags
To few units, easily wiped out by the Japanese. I think SWO_Daddy has made two in his deck. Ping Hai and Flring Tigers P40 Warhawk
Erwin Rommel - "Give me American supply lines, British planes, German officers and Canadian troops, and I can take over the world".
For what it’s worth I strongly support the inclusion of the Brazilian river monitor. I think river monitors, and small brown water craft in general, get slept on in lieu of their bigger blue water cousins. Though I get why it doesn’t make much sense to include them in a game about sea-going vessels.
Has the forum ever considered vessels of the (admittedly short lived) Chinese Navy? The Republic of China had a very small fleet of like 8 war ships, mostly brown water craft, all horrendously outdated (1890’s era), that they tried to use to slow down the Japanese invasion in the early war. They were almost all entirely sunk by Japanese aviation. But I think it’s a neat concept to build off of. That’s just me, though - I like historical oddities and underdogs!
It has been talked about for ages on the Forumini. There is Yasoshima which kinda including China in the game. Though under a Imperial Japan flag. P-36 flies under many flags
Too few units, easily wiped out by the Japanese. I think SWO_Daddy has made two in his deck. Ping Hai and Flring Tigers P40 Warhawk
Yeah that makes sense. I’m seeing the difficulties being had with the Yasoshima, I imagine it would be the same for all of the other Chinese ships.
On a totally different note, I was looking over official and fan made A&A cards and I realized how few ships the Russian navy actually had. At first I thought it was just the way the cards fell with the folks building the decks, but no, the Russian’s actually had a pretty small navy, especially compared to the US, UK, and Japan. Germany also had a pretty tiny navy, though that checks out with the naval treaties and all that.
I put this on the other deck post, but I'll put it here too since the idea was presented far too late into the process:
I have a suggestion, what if you guys did an "Identity Crisis" themed expansion. Basically, everything in the expansion are units that were shared by different nations. Just some ideas randomly popping into my head: Murmansk/USS Milwaukee, Greek/Ialian Freccia (Dardo) class destroyers, Romanian MAS Boats, Italian Bf109, French Sunderland, UK Corsair, HMS Uganda, HMS Royal Sovereign, TA destroyers for Germany, "SMS" Niobi, Russian Delfinal, Russian Regele Ferdinand, Turkish air force, HMS Archer (have you done USS Long Island?), Dutch Campbeltown... etc.
Well, anyways, you get the idea. Worst case scenario, it makes for a fun mental exercise to help with future set building. It did me.
Australia -Submarine; K9 or Oxley -HMAS Nepal -HMAS Yarra -wirraway
Brazil -Parnaiba (river monitors, still in service iirc) -Aníbal Benévolo
Canada -HMCS Oakville - Ram -HMCS Vancouver - Sub Hunter -SS Avondale Park - Vital Cargo 6 (last ship sunk by germany before surrender) -HMCS Iroquois - Raider -Prince Henry
France -Large Unit; Bearn Auxiliary or Normandie Auxiliary -Cruiser; Foch, Marseillaise - Vital Cargo 6/Cruiser Leader -Bouclier -aux Jules Verne -sub Minerve -DD valmy, simoum -Dakar or Freetown batteries
UK -Battleship; HMS Royal Sovereign, HMS Howe, malaya, -Carrier;HMS Battler, HMS Courageous, hms tracker, hms audacity -Historical Interest Unit? HMS Albatross, palomares, HMS Maidstone, RFA Bishopdale, ss springbank, ss empire macalpine, -Carrier Aircraft; hellcat -Aircraft; Fortress Mk I, avro anson, whitley, harvard, mosquito f/b -Heavy Cruiser; HMS Cumberland,hms ambercrobie, hms erebus -Light Cruiser; HMS Scylla, HMS Liverpool, HMS Welshman, hms cairo/coventry -Modern DD; HMS Eskimo, HMS Porcupine -Interwar/Escort Destroyer; HMS Foresight, HMS Ardent, HMS Juno, HMS Basilisk, HMS Starling, hms onslow, hms kepple, hms lookout, Eclipse, echo, foresight, forester, vanoc, wanderer, -Sub, hms ursula, hms seraph, hms trenchant, parthian, proteus, Sahib, saracen -aux : HMS Misoa
US Battleship; USS Louisiana Carrier; CV10 Yorktown, USS Kitkun Bay Historical Interest Unit, USS Casa Grande, USS Yosemite, curtiss, s hopkins Carrier Aircraft? Aircraft, invader, texan Cruisers; USS Augusta, USS Miami, USS Nashville Modern DD; Lansdowne Old DD or Escort Aux; USCGS Eastwind?, USS Upshur, uss pope, USS Ruben James, USS Clark, USS Panay Sub; USS Bullhead, uss sealion Installation - Fort Drum Uss pruitt - attu landing
SU Large unit/cruiser; icebreaker yermak?,UP41, Frunze, frunze/izmali cv conversion, komintern, marti Aircraft - il10 Sub - L3, Lembit Installation?
L class sub, Butakov? ---------‐‐-----------------------, FI Destroyer (Vittoria)
GE Large Unit, lutzow,moltke sister Togo/Coronel, widder, sperbrecher, mb stuben Aircraft, fw190, do18,captured d520 Sub u107, u221, u177, u123 Dd, zh2, z31, z3
Italy Large Unit -Progetto G is for a 37,000 ton BB with 16 - 380 MM guns, Progetto Cassone is for a 45,000 ton Battlecruiser with 8 - 456 MM guns and a speed if 35-40 knots, Progetto Leghorn is for a 27,000 Ton Battlecruiser with 9 - 381 MM guns, 12 6 inch guns in Turrets, as well as 2 quad torpedo tunes. Cruiser, san marco, etna Destroyer, euterpe, gabbiano, leone, nembo Aircraft, bf109 Historical unit; Olterrasub Sub - E Tazzoli, alagi
01 AUSTRALIA - KVIX (Wornout Boat) 02 BRAZIL - Parnaiba (Monitor/ HULL 1) 03 CANADA - Destroyer (Sackville Sister/River Class/Tribal Class) or Auxiliary 04 FRANCE - LARGE UNIT/ "RARE" (Bearn Amphibious Flagship) Normandie (Large Liner) 05 FRANCE - LIGHT CRUISER (Alternate from Deck G) 06 FRANCE - DESTROYER / SUBMARINE 07 FRANCE - AIRCRAFT 08 FRANCE - INSTALLATION 09 GREECE - DESTROYER OR CRUISER 10 (Floating) 11 (Floating) 12 (Floating) 13 (Floating) 14 (Floating) 15 (Floating) 16 (Floating) 17 NETHERLANDS - MINELAYER/CRUISER 18 NETHERLANDS - AIRCRAFT 19 NETHERLANDS 20 NEW ZEALAND - ARABATUS / CORSAIR 21 NORWAY - SVENNER (DESTROYER) 22 POLAND - DESTROYER (Hunt Class/ Borrasaquse Class) 23 UK - COMMANDER 24 UK - LARGE UNIT 25 UK - CRUISER 26 UK - DESTROYER 27 UK - AIRCRAFT 28 UK 29 UK 30 UK 31 USA - COMMANDER 32 USA - LARGE UNIT 33 USA - CRUISER 34 USA - DESTROYER 35 USA - AIRCRAFT 36 USA 37 USA 38 USA 39 USA 40 USA 41 USA 42 USSR 43 USSR 44 USSR 45 FINLAND 46 GERMANY - COMMANDER 47 GERMANY - LARGE SHIP 48 GERMANY - AIRCRAFT 49 GERMANY 50 GERMANY 51 ITALY - COMMANDER 52 ITALY - LARGE SHIP 53 ITALY - DESTROYER / SUB 54 ITALY - AIRCRAFT 55 ITALY 56 JAPAN - COMMANDER 57 JAPAN - LARGE SHIP 58 JAPAN - CRUISER 59 JAPAN - DESTROYER 60 JAPAN - AIRCRAFT 61 JAPAN 62 JAPAN 63 JAPAN 64 JAPAN 65 ROMANIA - DESTROYER / GUNBOAT 66 SIAM - TORPEDO BOAT OR 6"Armed Small Gunboat 67 ARGENTINA - Santa Fe Class Submarine 68 CHILE - Admirante Lynche Class Destroyers 69 SPAIN - Nadir (Auxiliary Cruiser/ Commerce Raider) 70 SWEDEN - Oscar II 71 TURKEY - Hamidiye (WW1 Cruiser) 72 NEUTRAL - INSTALLATION
I put this on the other deck post, but I'll put it here too since the idea was presented far too late into the process:
I have a suggestion, what if you guys did an "Identity Crisis" themed expansion. Basically, everything in the expansion are units that were shared by different nations. Just some ideas randomly popping into my head: Murmansk/USS Milwaukee, Greek/Ialian Freccia (Dardo) class destroyers, Romanian MAS Boats, Italian Bf109, French Sunderland, UK Corsair, HMS Uganda, HMS Royal Sovereign, TA destroyers for Germany, "SMS" Niobi, Russian Delfinal, Russian Regele Ferdinand, Turkish air force, HMS Archer (have you done USS Long Island?), Dutch Campbeltown... etc.
Well, anyways, you get the idea. Worst case scenario, it makes for a fun mental exercise to help with future set building. It did me.
Definitely more scope for adding this type, particularly captured units in german/italian fleets to help fill them out. Japan has plenty of varied captured options to potentially add too, but maybe less needed than the other two.
Like you say plenty could be added on the allied side but with plenty of native choices still available, inevitably some are down the pecking order. Lend lease four stackers, corvettes, even coast guard cutters did sterling service but the UK is only just getting a flower and is still without Black swans, Bitterns etc. Then you have the late war stuff like Bay's & Loch's etc. that are going to be down the pecking order again, mainly because they generally didn't have the 'excitement' of the earlier war other classes had. Similar with DDs I guess, do you do a choice from a class on the edge of things or a second/third choice of something that had a busy war?
The small unit selections are never going to catch up with the general slot allocations as they are, yet we're inevitably going to get more obscure larger stuff and aircraft types if that continues.
"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody"
"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"
Yeah, just looking at that rough break down, it does seem to be trying to cover everything, including adding commanders to a 72 card deck. Obviously no biggie at this stage but just giving feedback. I would say maybe a slot too many for the dutch, Italy has to have a sub again and to maybe not have a cruiser (Cruiser heavy current deck), France to me has strong choices for both a DD & sub and maybe an Aux instead of an installation. Maybe one of AUS or CAN should get a small ship type instead of a fleet DD again. UK numbers are down and has to have more slots considering the choices that are going to be competing. I wasn't advocating Saracen or Sahib (better sub choices available), just name checking them in connection with other units. One or two others still want shortlisting, like Aux Palomares.
"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody"
"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"
01 AUSTRALIA - KVIX (Wornout Boat) 02 BRAZIL - Parnaiba (Monitor/ HULL 1) 03 CANADA - Destroyer (Sackville Sister/River Class/Tribal Class) or Auxiliary 04 FRANCE - LARGE UNIT/ "RARE" (Bearn Amphibious Flagship) Normandie (Large Liner) 05 FRANCE - LIGHT CRUISER (Alternate from Deck G) 06 FRANCE - DESTROYER / SUBMARINE 07 FRANCE - AIRCRAFT 08 FRANCE - INSTALLATION 09 GREECE - Salamis BB (b/u unfinished 1932) 10 to greece: commander 11 to turkey fighter (new class) 12 to UK (to 9 slots) 13 (Floating) 14 (Floating) 15 (Floating) 16 (Floating) 17 NETHERLANDS - MINELAYER/CRUISER 18 NETHERLANDS - AIRCRAFT 19 NETHERLANDS 20 NEW ZEALAND - ARABATUS / CORSAIR 21 NORWAY - SVENNER (DESTROYER) 22 POLAND - DESTROYER (Hunt Class/ Borrasaquse Class) 23 UK - COMMANDER 24 UK - LARGE UNIT 25 UK - CRUISER (notionally filled by greek BB to allow another unrepresented DD class 26 UK - DESTROYER 27 UK - AIRCRAFT 28 UK 29 UK 30 UK 31 USA - COMMANDER 32 USA - LARGE UNIT 33 USA - CRUISER 34 USA - DESTROYER 35 USA - AIRCRAFT 36 USA 37 USA 38 USA 39 USA 40 USA 41 USA 42 USSR 43 USSR 44 USSR 45 FINLAND - Ww1 destroyer (m or v classed(pre washington naval treaty) 46 GERMANY - COMMANDER 47 GERMANY - LARGE SHIP 48 GERMANY - AIRCRAFT 49 GERMANY Altmark 50 GERMANY 51 ITALY - COMMANDER 52 ITALY - LARGE SHIP 53 ITALY - DESTROYER / SUB 54 ITALY - AIRCRAFT 55 ITALY 56 JAPAN - COMMANDER 57 JAPAN - LARGE SHIP 58 JAPAN - CRUISER 59 JAPAN - DESTROYER 60 JAPAN - AIRCRAFT 61 JAPAN 62 JAPAN 63 JAPAN 64 JAPAN 65 ROMANIA - DESTROYER / GUNBOAT 66 SIAM - commander (Luang Phrom Viraphan/ko chang) 67 ARGENTINA - Santa Fe Class Submarine 68 CHILE - Admirante Lynche Class Destroyers 69 SPAIN - Nadir (Auxiliary Cruiser/ Commerce Raider) 70 SWEDEN - Oscar II 71 TURKEY - Hamidiye (WW1 Cruiser) 72 NEUTRAL - INSTALLATION Subpen: concealment for all your subs on your map side
List is slowly coming together. Guess subpens will be neutral instead of German specific. Since all the battleships and carriers used up. What could we use as a rare?
Erwin Rommel - "Give me American supply lines, British planes, German officers and Canadian troops, and I can take over the world".
Seems right to try and work towards those last two or three IJN light cruisers from a completion POV. Nothing much jumping out individually for me otherwise, apart from the destroyer Kasumi as mentioned previous. A Hypo CV Amagi would seem like an option for a large rare and with an Akagi sculpt already to hand. I wouldn't go against IJN making up the numbers with aircraft, as they still have some decent varied options. The opposite situation to some of the allies really, where I just can't see more than one aircraft choice apiece at this point, what with the pressing ship options still to do.
"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody"
"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"
The Romanian options are really - Aviation planned crusier - Regale Ferdinand as a Flag Regina Maria remake - Ghiculescu - gunboat minesweeper escort hull 1. sunk a Sub - Sbuorl hull 2 torpedo boat Fromm ww1 protected convoys using smoke near Snake Island ( of Ukrainian fame)
15 NETHERLANDS - 0-20 - Sub/Minelayer 16 NETHERLANDS - Nieuw Amsterdam -Liner 17 NETHERLANDS - AIRCRAFT 18 NEW ZEALAND - ARABATUS / CORSAIR 19 NORWAY - SVENNER (DESTROYER) 20 POLAND - DESTROYER (Hunt Class/ Borrasaquse Class) / PZL.37 Łoś? (twin engined bomber) 21 UK - "USS Robin" Operational HMS Victorious 22 UK - 23 UK - COMMANDER (2/7) 24 UK - LARGE UNIT 25 UK - CRUISER (notionally filled by greek BB to allow another unrepresented DD class) 26 UK - DESTROYER 27 UK - AIRCRAFT 28 UK 29 UK - UNREPRESENTED "COMMON" CLASS 30 USA 31 USA - COMMANDER ?Charles Momsen(US WOLFPACK) (3/7) 32 USA - USS Illinois - 5th Iowa Class 33 USA - CRUISER 34 USA - DESTROYER 35 USA - AIRCRAFT 36 USA 37 USA 38 USA 39 USA 40 USA - UNREPRESENTED "COMMON" CLASS 41 USSR 42 USSR 43 USSR 44 FINLAND - WW1 destroyer (m or v classes(pre Washington naval treaty) 45 GERMANY - COMMANDER Paul-Werner Hozzel (vs Illustrious) (4/7) 46 GERMANY - Jade Carrier 47 GERMANY - BV 222 Wiking Patrol Bomber 48 GERMANY Altmark 49 GERMANY 50 ITALY - COMMANDER (5/7) 51 ITALY - LARGE SHIP 52 ITALY - DESTROYER / SUB 53 ITALY - AIRCRAFT 54 ITALY 55 JAPAN - COMMANDER (6/7) 58 JAPAN - WARSHIP 111 - 4TH Yamato Class 57 JAPAN - LIGHT CRUISER 58 JAPAN - DESTROYER 59 JAPAN - AIRCRAFT 60 JAPAN - Shin'yo - Carrier 61 JAPAN 62 JAPAN 63 JAPAN - UNREPRESENTED "COMMON" CLASS 64 ROMANIA - DESTROYER / GUNBOAT 65 SIAM - commander Luang Phrom Viraphan:ko chang (7/7) 66 ARGENTINA - Santa Fe Class Submarine 67 CHILE - Admirante Lynche Class Destroyers 68 SPAIN - Nadir (Auxiliary Cruiser/ Commerce Raider) 69 SWEDEN - Oscar II 70 TURKEY - Hamidiye (WW1 Cruiser) 71 TURKEY - Fighter (ms406 or PZL P.24) 72 NEUTRAL - INSTALLATION Subpen: concealment for all your subs on your map side