Yeah, I don't understand all the dfficulty with history. That doesn't just make it disappear.
True, but I suppose maybe from a Jewish and other targeted group's perspective, they would want to forget it. BTW I am totally with you on that aspect of acknowledging these things happened. I am only offering a possibility of as to why people might feel this way.
Yeah, I don't understand all the dfficulty with history. That doesn't just make it disappear.
True, but I suppose maybe from a Jewish and other targeted group's perspective, they would want to forget it. BTW I am totally with you on that aspect of acknowledging these things happened. I am only offering a possibility of as to why people might feel this way.
Understood, but I won't say more as I don't want to hi-jack this thread and turn into one about political correctness.
I thought I saw these advertised on Foxtel a few days ago, took one look at the wife, she said "don't even think about it"...muahahaha! Kill-joy.
G'day to Flak, how are ya mate?
Got a short, funny story about these minis.
I usually just buy what I want without asking my wife. In this case, I asked my wife if she would mind if I spend about $30/month to buy these ships. She told me she didn't mind, but thanked me for asking. Then, as I stated above, I went to order the ships and learned that they weren't available for US delivery.
I don't think it's a matter of Germany not acknowledging or pretending the Nazis didn't exist nor the actions of WW2 never happened.
If I remember correctly, Germany was having trouble with neo Nazis in the 80's and this was a measure to help stamp it out.
I would bet large sums of money that Germany is entirely aware and conscious of the past
Well, I didn't want to get into this, but ok, if you insist.
No one believes that the Germans aren't aware of their history. However, Germany banned the swastika in 1949, not in the 1980's. The point waratsea and I are making is banning the swastika doesn't remove it from memory nor from history. To prove my point, you mention the problem in the 1980's, and it still persists today with the neo-nazis. Banning the swastika didn't stop or really change anything. My hope is it doesn't have the opposite effect.
I don't think it's a matter of Germany not acknowledging or pretending the Nazis didn't exist nor the actions of WW2 never happened.
If I remember correctly, Germany was having trouble with neo Nazis in the 80's and this was a measure to help stamp it out.
I would bet large sums of money that Germany is entirely aware and conscious of the past
Well, I didn't want to get into this, but ok, if you insist.
No one believes that the Germans aren't aware of their history. However, Germany banned the swastika in 1949, not in the 1980's. The point waratsea and I are making is banning the swastika doesn't remove it from memory nor from history. To prove my point, you mention the problem in the 1980's, and it still persists today with the neo-nazis. Banning the swastika didn't stop or really change anything. My hope is it doesn't have the opposite effect.
I'm saying that they didn't ban it to try to remove it from history or memory. They banned it because it represents hatred. They also banned the solar cross of the KKK, as well as a number of other symbols and "forms of greeting"
Oh! And it is still permitted to use for art, science, research or teaching. So it would be very arguable to allow it on a model
Well, I didn't want to get into this, but ok, if you insist.
No one believes that the Germans aren't aware of their history. However, Germany banned the swastika in 1949, not in the 1980's. The point waratsea and I are making is banning the swastika doesn't remove it from memory nor from history. To prove my point, you mention the problem in the 1980's, and it still persists today with the neo-nazis. Banning the swastika didn't stop or really change anything. My hope is it doesn't have the opposite effect.
I'm saying that they didn't ban it to try to remove it from history or memory. They banned it because it represents hatred. They also banned the solar cross of the KKK, as well as a number of other symbols and "forms of greeting"
Oh! And it is still permitted to use for art, science, research or teaching. So it would be very arguable to allow it on a model
Well, I have personal knowledge that it is not permitted. I was in the business of shipping models to Germany and other nations. I can personally attest to the fact, regardless of our mutually agreed opinion, the Bismarck with a swastika will not be permitted in Germany on a model. It is not considered art, rather it is considered a toy. As the saying goes, the only difference between a man and a boy is the price of their toys.
Finally, regarding the banning of the swastika, legislation against these things doesn't work. It is nothing more than an Orwellian attempt at mind control. You can't control or tell people how or what to think.The neo-nazis are doing just fine, as is the KKK. Regardless of good intentions, any law that attempts to legislate thought, including hate, it will not work.
Been a constant topic at this place hasn't it. We've all had the same conversation at modelling time and time again, some guys paint it in (I'm one of them, try for historical accuracy, nothing to do with Nazi love), some guys leave a blank white field, some guys paint variants of black crosses...each to their own I always say. Not gonna tell a fellow gamer to bugger off if he fields a navy with swastikas on his ships, may tell him he didn't quite get the angle right though...lol.
Its the thinking we gotta get rid of, and unfortunately that is still going great guns in many places in the world including here in Australia.
Be great to get an idea of the actual size of these things, either way swastika or no swastika they sure look like nice model ships.
Dan
pictures upload "The British Army should be a projectile fired by the British Navy" - Viscount Grey
I'm saying that they didn't ban it to try to remove it from history or memory. They banned it because it represents hatred. They also banned the solar cross of the KKK, as well as a number of other symbols and "forms of greeting"
Oh! And it is still permitted to use for art, science, research or teaching. So it would be very arguable to allow it on a model
Well, I have personal knowledge that it is not permitted. I was in the business of shipping models to Germany and other nations. I can personally attest to the fact, regardless of our mutually agreed opinion, the Bismarck with a swastika will not be permitted in Germany on a model. It is not considered art, rather it is considered a toy. As the saying goes, the only difference between a man and a boy is the price of their toys.
Finally, regarding the banning of the swastika, legislation against these things doesn't work. It is nothing more than an Orwellian attempt at mind control. You can't control or tell people how or what to think.The neo-nazis are doing just fine, as is the KKK. Regardless of good intentions, any law that attempts to legislate thought, including hate, it will not work.
Well 12-7; don't think it could be said any better; Now its starting with the history of the confederate states and their symbols. I think the point is; with our generation anyway; your human you know what right and wrong hopefully; if you can't image the horrors mankind can bestow upon one another, at least knowing history prepares you; To imagine not wanting to know both sides, right or wrong, ignorant or controlling, just leads you down the path of the walking dead. Be prepared for big brother to lead your life.
I think Germany, as a country, HAD to ban Nazi associated images. Because they were government sponsored, if the succeeding government permitted them to be used by it's citizenry, that's a level of condoning it.
It would be saying, on some level, that the Nazi party and its associated actions were ok.
This is not the place to be talking about Confederacy throw backs or it's symbolism
To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea