If you have multiple, then you get multiple rerolls but not for the same instance.
Yes, there is potential to hoist you opponemt on his/her own petard. Dense minefield could be taken to mean in the battlefield as a whole, not a specifuc 5000yard square of it.
Mechanically its fine. Theres only issues if your trying to break things for an advantage. If you cant accept a bit of fudging, there are more detailed alternatives🤷♂️
Just to clarify, you do not need to remember whether a mine was laid by you or your opponent when an opponent's "enemy ship" enters "a mined sector." You (the owner of the card) can reroll the die once per game for any time an enemy ship enters a mined sector. Presumably you would do that when the first die roll did no damage. But you can do it to try to let your opponent off the hook I suppose if you are so inclined.
Dense Minefield - Once per game, you may reroll the die when an enemy Ship enters a mined sector.
Yes that's right a mined sector isn't owned by any player. A sector is either mined or not mined.
The SA - Mines says "Whenever a SHIP enters a mined sector" not "when an Enemy Ship enters a mined sector". Where does it say who rolls for mine damage?
Example 1 With the SA - Dense Minefield lets say you have one of these ships in your fleet and your opponent doesn't but has other units that can lay mines. Let's say your opponent lays two or more mines and you don't. Just by having this SA in your fleet means your opponent has just laid two or more Dense Minefields and if he moves into one of those mines someone will roll for mine damage and you will get to reroll that roll even though you didn't lay them.
Example 2 Let's say you have one of these ships in your fleet and your opponent doesn't but you both have other units that can lay mines. Let's say you both lay two or more mines each. This SA means that every minefield is now a "Dense Minefield" for you but not for your opponent even the ones he laid.
While W@S is an abstract system and may have some quirky mechanics (aircraft) it is fair and even for both players. Does the previous examples seam fair and even to you? Does it make logical sense to you?
And yes I have played games where there has been multiple minefields and players have had to move into to mines they themselves have laid. And yes I know its a OPG SA but what if you have more than one of them?
So what is really bothering you about this? It seems like a very simple SA to me. Yes, I am not a huge fan of OPG SAs but that horse left the barn and this one will be pretty easy to hold in your hand until you want to use it. Much simpler than many. They also have a class limit of one so it isn't an issue unless you don't play with class limits. If you don't play with class limits there are other cards and SAs that are far, far more difficult and gamey than this one IMO. It's just a fun flavor SA IMO. And no, it wasn't my idea, but I think it is fine.
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And yes I know its a OPG SA but what if you have more than one of them?
If you are playing with Class limits, you can't as they each have a limit of 1.
Class limits are an optional rule and as Weeds has stated again and again and again for the last decade each unit should be designed with Red Vs Blue and with base game rules.
Is this really too much of an abstraction? Dense minefields just seems to me to represent more coordinated mining operations on one player's part, which makes it seem less ridiculous that a player could theoretically lay multiple "dense" minefields.
Tactical minefields also are already a huge abstraction, and this SA is a quaint and easy way to make mines more fun and effective.
Yes but this SA doesn't apply to one player. It also applies to the minefields your opponent lays. Basically what this SA is saying is that the US want more coordinated mining operations against the Japanese by asking the Japanese to lay more dense minefields but they want it done in a way that the mines are only dense against Japanese ships and not US ships.
Mechanically its fine. Theres only issues if your trying to break things for an advantage. If you cant accept a bit of fudging, there are more detailed alternatives🤷♂️
Mechanically its fine. Theres only issues if your trying to break things for an advantage. If you cant accept a bit of fudging, there are more detailed alternatives🤷♂️
It is not in the rulebook it is tied to the Special Ability. Here's the SA:
Mines: Once per game, instead of making an attack in the Surface Attack phase, this unit can mine its sector. Whenever a ship enters the mined sector, roll a die. On a 1, the ship takes 1 point of damage. On a 2, 2 points. Torpedo defense works against this damage.
There was a clarification (as an FYI) that Torpedo Defense and Torpedo Protection both work against this damage.
So technically it is whoever laid the minefield rolls the die no matter whose ship enters that minefield, at least that's how I read it. However, to avoid confusion with lots of mines on the map, my group has always allowed the opponent to just roll the die.
We've read the SA and the Clarifications; its a presumption the laying unit has to roll for effect;;; nothing states otherwise.
The clarifications state what protects against it and that you only activate a roll when you enter the sector you can stay in the sector all game and not roll again;;; 8/2009.
You can presume the moving unit rolls or the laying unit rolls, i would lean towards the unit moving into the sector, as the roller whether you laid the mines or not.
Dense Minefield took a lot of assumption upon its self and this argument proves it. Weeds had to clarify its meaning to make sense of it and his own Group never played that play
I will probably continue to play that the person moving the ship rolls the die as well. In the end I don't think it matters. If you have one (or more) of these cards in your fleet then once per game you can tell the opposing player that you are going to make a second roll at a time of your choosing. Mechanically it is just a re-roll SA like many others. A little out-of-the box maybe, but Mines and related SAs have always been that way.
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