I believe from start the premise of a Mined sector was it was friendly to no one; Red or Blue -- Axis or Allies;
So i don't see how this SA continues this;; A Dense Mine field would be friendly to no one;; Saying that the Enemy would be the only one to be effected upon entrance seems to contradict that.
I don't see how this contradicts it. The "Dense Minefield" SA doesn't say that only an enemy is affected by your minefield, it only allows you to re-roll when an enemy ship enters.
If your ship enters the minefield then you would not want to re-roll a miss, you would want to re-roll a hit. If there is a dense minefield, it implies that it is more dangerous. Thus,this SA is worded such that you wouldn't be able to do this. You are only allowed to re-roll against an enemy. Thus this SA would only be used on a miss for a chance at a hit.
I believe from start the premise of a Mined sector was it was friendly to no one; Red or Blue -- Axis or Allies;
So i don't see how this SA continues this;; A Dense Mine field would be friendly to no one;; Saying that the Enemy would be the only one to be effected upon entrance seems to contradict that.
I don't see how this contradicts it. The "Dense Minefield" SA doesn't say that only an enemy is affected by your minefield, it only allows you to re-roll when an enemy ship enters.
If your ship enters the minefield then you would not want to re-roll a miss, you would want to re-roll a hit. If there is a dense minefield, it implies that it is more dangerous. Thus,this SA is worded such that you wouldn't be able to do this. You are only allowed to re-roll against an enemy. Thus this SA would only be used on a miss for a chance at a hit.
To me a mine field has no friend or enemy a unit enters it and rolls for damage explained in the clarification of 2009, until this new SA it wouldn't matter who lied the mines, i still don't see
how that would matter, but if thats the way you see it, then when you enter your own dense mine field you don't have to roll or do you;; do you have a choice in re rolling or don't you?
If you see it as one side or the other controls a minefield and has privilege with in it;; than as with the Walrus to me expansion as gone to far beyond the perimeters of the game.
I'm an originalist when i first started and saw some of the needed errata;; Weed once said who are we to change anything you will never have everyone see it the way you see it.
So I came to the conclusion if your going to expand it has to be done in limited parameters, everyone does cards so i look at the idea of expansion teams as the best way to go.
The Expansion decks and what they have tried to accomplish has gone way beyond my original believes so i participate and express what i fell as gone to far, all in good fun, is it what it is.
To me of all the Expansion units created so far i would have trouble adding 40 to the game.
I don't see how this contradicts it. The "Dense Minefield" SA doesn't say that only an enemy is affected by your minefield, it only allows you to re-roll when an enemy ship enters.
If your ship enters the minefield then you would not want to re-roll a miss, you would want to re-roll a hit. If there is a dense minefield, it implies that it is more dangerous. Thus,this SA is worded such that you wouldn't be able to do this. You are only allowed to re-roll against an enemy. Thus this SA would only be used on a miss for a chance at a hit.
To me a mine field has no friend or enemy a unit enters it and rolls for damage explained in the clarification of 2009, until this new SA it wouldn't matter who lied the mines, i still don't see
how that would matter, but if thats the way you see it, then when you enter your own dense mine field you don't have to roll or do you;; do you have a choice in re rolling or don't you?
If you see it as one side or the other controls a minefield and has privilege with in it;; than as with the Walrus to me expansion as gone to far beyond the perimeters of the game.
I'm an originalist when i first started and saw some of the needed errata;; Weed once said who are we to change anything you will never have everyone see it the way you see it.
So I came to the conclusion if your going to expand it has to be done in limited parameters, everyone does cards so i look at the idea of expansion teams as the best way to go.
The Expansion decks and what they have tried to accomplish has gone way beyond my original believes so i participate and express what i fell as gone to far, all in good fun, is it what it is.
To me of all the Expansion units created so far i would have trouble adding 40 to the game.
I get it. Since we started the first deck we have had players and developers that think we have gone too far and others that think we are too constrained. In this case I think it has been clear ever since RB created the SA that a mined sector affects ships on both sides. It may be unclear who rolls the die, but in the end it doesn't matter to the outcome. This new SA does specify that the reroll is specifically for when an enemy ship enters a mined sector, not your own, so there shouldn't be any confusion about that. Too far? Too little? Depends on who you ask. The game mechanic of a reroll is certainly nothing new. It is just new to Mines.
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To me a mine field has no friend or enemy a unit enters it and rolls for damage explained in the clarification of 2009, until this new SA it wouldn't matter who lied the mines, i still don't see
how that would matter, but if thats the way you see it, then when you enter your own dense mine field you don't have to roll or do you;; do you have a choice in re rolling or don't you?
If you see it as one side or the other controls a minefield and has privilege with in it;; than as with the Walrus to me expansion as gone to far beyond the perimeters of the game.
I'm an originalist when i first started and saw some of the needed errata;; Weed once said who are we to change anything you will never have everyone see it the way you see it.
So I came to the conclusion if your going to expand it has to be done in limited parameters, everyone does cards so i look at the idea of expansion teams as the best way to go.
The Expansion decks and what they have tried to accomplish has gone way beyond my original believes so i participate and express what i fell as gone to far, all in good fun, is it what it is.
To me of all the Expansion units created so far i would have trouble adding 40 to the game.
I get it. Since we started the first deck we have had players and developers that think we have gone too far and others that think we are too constrained. In this case I think it has been clear ever since RB created the SA that a mined sector affects ships on both sides. It may be unclear who rolls the die, but in the end it doesn't matter to the outcome. This new SA does specify that the reroll is specifically for when an enemy ship enters a mined sector, not your own, so there shouldn't be any confusion about that. Too far? Too little? Depends on who you ask. The game mechanic of a reroll is certainly nothing new. It is just new to Mines.
I get it to; when you say Dense Mine field and i don't want to play semantics with the SA title, entering that field one would expect "even" unfriendliness its also true before it mattered not who rolls now it does.
Dense Minefields is the games first Schrodinger's Cat SA. A minefield can be both dense and not dense depending on who enters it and when they enter it.
Example - Player A lays a minefield. Player B moves ship No 1 into the minefield and its dense, Player 1 re-rolls the die. Player B moves ship No 2 into the same minefield and now its not dense, Player 1 can't re-roll the die.
Here's another example. A player lays a minefield, it doesn't matter which player. Both players have a ship that enter the exact same minefield, the exact same minefield is dense to one player and not dense to the other.
So I came to the conclusion if your going to expand it has to be done in limited parameters, everyone does cards so i look at the idea of expansion teams as the best way to go.
The Expansion decks and what they have tried to accomplish has gone way beyond my original believes so i participate and express what i fell as gone to far, all in good fun, is it what it is.
To me of all the Expansion units created so far i would have trouble adding 40 to the game.
I wish the Forum would stop calling these decks expansions. Expansions are supposed to add new mechanics and features to game. RB added installations which was a new unit type, this is expansion.
All the teams have done is dilute the game with more of what already existed in the game so that national flavours has been watered down to a point where there's not a lot of difference between them.
I feel like I'm playing Star Fleet Battles in which all the races had "cookie Cutter" fleets.
An Expansion is just that an expansion. From a team perspective we tried our best to keep the flavour of fleets alive. Where we have “expanded” is the depth of nations, new SAs, new nations and concepts. I consider that an expansion. Look I understand people might not enjoy them, if that is the case don’t use them. But tbh the game would be DEAD if it wasn’t for new fan content.
The point of the team is to be as representative if the whole community. This means that some compromises have to be made to make sure deck lands in the middle ground.
Dense Minefields is the games first Schrodinger's Cat SA. A minefield can be both dense and not dense depending on who enters it and when they enter it.
Example - Player A lays a minefield. Player B moves ship No 1 into the minefield and its dense, Player 1 re-rolls the die. Player B moves ship No 2 into the same minefield and now its not dense, Player 1 can't re-roll the die.
Here's another example. A player lays a minefield, it doesn't matter which player. Both players have a ship that enter the exact same minefield, the exact same minefield is dense to one player and not dense to the other.
This isn't abstract its just stupid.
Strasbourg moves into either minefield and its magically absent.
Dense Minefields is the games first Schrodinger's Cat SA. A minefield can be both dense and not dense depending on who enters it and when they enter it.
Example - Player A lays a minefield. Player B moves ship No 1 into the minefield and its dense, Player 1 re-rolls the die. Player B moves ship No 2 into the same minefield and now its not dense, Player 1 can't re-roll the die.
Here's another example. A player lays a minefield, it doesn't matter which player. Both players have a ship that enter the exact same minefield, the exact same minefield is dense to one player and not dense to the other.
This isn't abstract its just stupid.
Strasbourg moves into either minefield and its magically absent.
No that's totally different. The mines are still there, the Stasbourg just avoids them. Not only does it avoid them it avoids them no matter who laid them. It doesn't avoid some and not others. And it doesn't matter when or where it avoids them.
An Expansion is just that an expansion. From a team perspective we tried our best to keep the flavour of fleets alive. Where we have “expanded” is the depth of nations, new SAs, new nations and concepts. I consider that an expansion. Look I understand people might not enjoy them, if that is the case don’t use them. But tbh the game would be DEAD if it wasn’t for new fan content.
Your absolutely right and i have nothing against expansion, like everything else in life you have the yea's and the nay's.
I always fought for the Team concept be to a Forum involved expansion thing, not a select group who either appoint them selfs or follow a leader never loudly
expressing doubt about what should enter the game.
Opening Salvo was an RB thing, because it was his game, its not a Team thing or anyone on the Teams thing.
The way the Team is set up it has the power to case dissenting voices aside, but at least they are herd before the fact and not after it.
An Expansion is just that an expansion. From a team perspective we tried our best to keep the flavour of fleets alive. Where we have “expanded” is the depth of nations, new SAs, new nations and concepts. I consider that an expansion. Look I understand people might not enjoy them, if that is the case don’t use them. But tbh the game would be DEAD if it wasn’t for new fan content.
I'm not saying that adding new content is bad, it's a very good necessity for any war-game. And yes the game would be dead with out it (instead its the "living dead"). SA's already exists in the game, Nations already exists in the game. Just adding more of what already exists in a game isn't expansion, it's what we in game design circles call Bloat. Adding extra material just for the sake of adding it just bloating the game.
What new concepts have you added? What new mechanics have you introduced? What new unit types have you introduced?
So avoid mines is an abilty you buy to change the probability of mines damage for yourself
And dense minefield is an ability you buy to change thre probability of mine damage against your opponent on a single instance.
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The whole premise of fleet construction is selecting advantages for yourself and mitigating those of your opponent. Dense minefield is really no different.