P1Y Frances **Done**

CommanderSam
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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 20, 2020 8:48:19 GMT

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Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 8:48:19 GMT

Aug 19, 2020 19:15:31 GMT ticat1 said:

Aug 19, 2020 19:03:49 GMT weedsrock2 said:

Land Based isn't necessary for a Patrol Bomber.

Ha! Yeah, there is that!

There was too much blood in my coffee system at the time

Wow, I confess I had the same issue

Must have been contaminated by the Walrus discussion

So High Agility (in addition to Armor 5) would kinda well reflect the difficulty to catch it. Agree that LDA is too much.
Peggy could carry one Torp, and so did Frances, so that would be more a 2T line IMO.

WRT Peggy cost :
LDA > HA but serves the same purpose
EE versus Kamikaze : Frances comes back less often but can hit harder once and for all
Improved bomb line is the real tie breaker I think

So cost would be more 11-12? I'd say 11 because Kamikaze makes it a more "expendable" unit - though I guess it would be used as desperate measures.

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	P1Y Frances Done Aug 20, 2020 11:48:05 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Aug 20, 2020 11:48:05 GMT Hard to imagine sacrificing an 11 point plane in that way. When was the last time anyone saw a jill sacrificed?

CommanderSam
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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 20, 2020 12:31:25 GMT

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Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 12:31:25 GMT

Aug 20, 2020 11:48:05 GMT flakstruk said:

Hard to imagine sacrificing an 11 point plane in that way. When was the last time anyone saw a jill sacrificed?

I actually did that at least once to wipe a crippled battleship from objective in last turn, for which I had lost all my torps boosts and would not play the odds of 3 dice to get a 6 (50%) over reaching 8 successes with 10 dice.

ticat1
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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 20, 2020 13:44:23 GMT via mobile

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Post by ticat1 on Aug 20, 2020 13:44:23 GMT

Aug 20, 2020 11:48:05 GMT flakstruk said:

Hard to imagine sacrificing an 11 point plane in that way. When was the last time anyone saw a jill sacrificed?

Yeah, it'd have to be a pretty desperate, 11th hour situation to use it.

...

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	P1Y Frances Done Aug 20, 2020 13:45:32 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Aug 20, 2020 13:45:32 GMT Aug 20, 2020 4:50:52 GMT weedsrock2 said: Carrying one torpedo would not qualify it for 3 torps. That is usually reserved for aircraft that could carry two. So I should bump it down to 2, then?
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

CommanderSam
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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 20, 2020 16:02:28 GMT

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Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 16:02:28 GMT

Aug 20, 2020 4:50:52 GMT weedsrock2 said:

Carrying one torpedo would not qualify it for 3 torps. That is usually reserved for aircraft that could carry two.

Though :

B5N Val only carried one and has a 3 line in both versions
B6N Jill only carried one and has a 3/1 line
B7N Grace only carried one and has a 3 line

Wouldn't there be a "japanese bonus" to torp lines? or is that only for actual torp bombers, not level bombers?

Last Edit: Aug 20, 2020 16:09:48 GMT by CommanderSam

Theaetetus Forumini Rear Admiral Posts: 4,924	P1Y Frances Done Aug 20, 2020 16:39:47 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Theaetetus on Aug 20, 2020 16:39:47 GMT I think there are more planes per squadron with the carrier based torpedo bombers, which results in a higher attack value.
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CommanderSam
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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 20, 2020 16:46:06 GMT

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Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 16:46:06 GMT

Aug 20, 2020 16:39:47 GMT Theaetetus said:

I think there are more planes per squadron with the carrier based torpedo bombers, which results in a higher attack value.

Good point, PB are stated to be 3 per fig.
So falling back to 2T would be consistent.

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,615	P1Y Frances Done Aug 20, 2020 20:31:12 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Aug 20, 2020 20:31:12 GMT We established that baseline on torps a long time ago. The

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	P1Y Frances Done Aug 21, 2020 10:54:27 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Aug 21, 2020 10:54:27 GMT Torps fixed
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	P1Y Frances Done Aug 22, 2020 1:44:20 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Aug 22, 2020 1:44:20 GMT Aug 19, 2020 17:41:35 GMT mnnorthstars said: Is the armor 5 for sure? Only a handful of patrol bombers have gotten armor 5. shpuld be function of speed shouldnt it

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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 22, 2020 2:00:09 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Aug 22, 2020 2:00:09 GMT

The P1Y1 had a maximum range of 2,900 nautical miles. That easily qualifies for Excellent Endurance.

From what I can tell in the book "Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War" there wasn't much difference between the Peggy and the Helen in specifications or performance. In fact, they were developed at the same time to the same specifications laid out by the IJN. The only difference in WaS terms is that the Helen had a bigger bomb load, but worse defensive armament. The IJN assumed speed would be its main defense. Speed was the same as the Peggy.

This aircraft had a lot of teething problems mainly because the engines were a new design and not very reliable at first.

I think the base stats are correct now. A Peggy with a bigger bomb load, but not as well defended.

SA based on specifications:

Excellent Endurance - Once per game, at the beginning of the Air Mission phase, you may remove a Rearming counter from this unit.

Does not qualify for Light Defensive Armament.

According to the book the design was intended to match the B-25 and Ju-88. It got the speed and payload, but it was lighter and less well defended. As always, the IJN especially wanted long range so it got a lot of fuel tanks.

Last Edit: Aug 22, 2020 2:03:16 GMT by weedsrock2

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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 22, 2020 2:18:18 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Aug 22, 2020 2:18:18 GMT

There isn't much information on combat operations with the aircraft. It was used as a medium bomber and torpedo bomber much like the Betty, but was really only used much the last 6 months of the war. They tried converting some of them to night fighters, but they were a failure and returned to bomber duty and some were used as kamikaze aircraft (as were every type of aircraft the Japanese had that could fly).

Possible SAs

Divide the Defense - Once per game you can declare you're using Divide the Defense. If you do, each Ship in this unit's sector gets -1 on each attack die when making Antiair attacks this turn, and this unit gets -1 on each attack die when making Bomb attacks and can't make Torpedo attacks this turn.
(Ju-88A-4)

Advanced Bomber - Enemy Fighters without Interceptor roll one fewer attack die against this unit. (Grace)

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flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	P1Y Frances Done Aug 22, 2020 4:32:43 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Aug 22, 2020 4:32:43 GMT What about harrass from a distance?

weedsrock2
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P1Y Frances **Done** Aug 22, 2020 16:24:53 GMT

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Post by weedsrock2 on Aug 22, 2020 16:24:53 GMT

HARASS FROM A DISTANCE: This unit's Torpedo attack has range 1. When this unit makes a range 1 attack, it can't benefit from the Expert Torpedoes ability.

I admit I have never been a big fan of Range 1 air attacks (or air defense). For one thing, it doesn't make much sense at the map scale of this game for WWII. However, we have it and that isn't going to change. It would have to give it a significant cost though.

Overall, I can see it helping the IJN against the USN with all of it's ranged AA, but it will be hard on the UK fleet and fans.

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P1Y Frances Done

Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 8:48:19 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Aug 20, 2020 11:48:05 GMT

Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 12:31:25 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 20, 2020 13:44:23 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 20, 2020 13:45:32 GMT

Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 16:02:28 GMT

Post by Theaetetus on Aug 20, 2020 16:39:47 GMT

Post by CommanderSam on Aug 20, 2020 16:46:06 GMT

Post by raevski on Aug 20, 2020 20:31:12 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Aug 21, 2020 10:54:27 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Aug 22, 2020 1:44:20 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Aug 22, 2020 2:00:09 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Aug 22, 2020 2:18:18 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Aug 22, 2020 4:32:43 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Aug 22, 2020 16:24:53 GMT

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