A torpedo attack does 2 damage 16.67% of the time. A 12-dice attack does 1 damage at the following rates vs. these armor values:
3 - 99% - hit a cruiser 4 - 97% - hit a fleet carrier 5 - 92% - hit a heavily armored cruiser or carrier 6 - 83% - hit Georgios Averof 7 - 71% - hit Renown 8 - 56% - hit a standard battleship 9 - 41% - hit a modern battleship, vital a cruiser 10 - 28% - hit Montana, vital an antebellum carrier 11 - 17% - vital an Essex 12 - 9% - vital Texas 13 - 4% - vital Dunkerque 14 - 2% - vital a standard battleship
12 dice vitals a carrier at the same rate that a single torpedo records a hit vs. Torpedo Defense.
Nice chart. Thanks!
A torpedo attack will be reduced to 1 damage on any modern battleship and some of the fleet carriers.
Overall, the Wellington has been my favorite land-based patrol bomber. But even that at 10 points it is tough to use versus the flying boats like the Sunderland. The Emily has always been the "Gold standard" for me among Patrol Bombers. The Frances is more powerful in attack and armor, but it does not have Loiter or Shadowing. Defensive Armament and Shadowing bring the Emily up closer to the Frances.
The more we discuss it the more I lean back to 12.
It looks like a 10-11 (leaning slightly more to the 11 side with Kamikaze). The Do 217E and Peggy seem to be the most comparable stat-wise and costwise.
If the range-1 attack is only going to be 1 die at most, we probably should not weight it a lot, since, 13 points is a bit steep for 3 "unblock-able" torpedo dice in 4 turns, since that is what you get beyond the normal 8/2 with 5/8/1. I would lean towards 12 or 11.
University Student— Lover of Plato, Aristotle, War At Sea, Palestrina, and Mozart
With the ranged torpedo attack... boosted by an Emily, it takes a full strike package (3 Jills) to expect 1 hit (on average). Since people think throwing 2 dice at range 1 is too much for this plane and had to make a new SA to nerf it... you'd need 6 of these things to get the same statistical result.
So, assuming that's crazy talk, you have a 50% chance of getting 1 hit with 3 of these planes at range-1. Hardly overwhelming.
8 bomb dice averages 5-6 hits, so it's no threat to BBs that way. Certainly a rare hit could occur; more likely you're going after cruisers, destroyers or carriers (if you can get through that AA).
I dunno, looking at the various factors and math, I can't see taking this at 13 points. I don't usually fly Jills off the land base, but they'd be better in every respect than this at 1 point more. Or, for 3 points LESS, take an Emily that can fly every turn and do almost as well... a self-spotting Emily will drop 7 bombs or 2 TT, and can drop 3 ASW as well.
You also have the loiter/rearming/Excellent Endurance thing to consider, but yeah. 11 points for Sparviero is about the max that makes sense for patrol bombers in a 200-point game. If you play 300, 400, those make a lot more sense to pay that much but it’s still a lot for something that can’t play every turn and might get aborted once or twice anyway.
Ranged Torpedo Attack - This unit's Torpedo attack has range 1. This unit rolls one less attack die when making Torpedo attacks at range 1.
MN proposed revision:
Ranged Torpedo Attack - This unit's Torpedo attack has range 1. When this unit makes a range-1 Torpedo attack, it can’t benefit from the Scout Planes ability.
Weeds next revision proposal:Ranged Torpedo Attack - This unit's Torpedo attack has range 1. When this unit makes a range 1 attack, that attack can't benefit from Special Abilities.
Just bringing this forward because it is a couple of pages back now.
P1Y Frances Maker: Yokosuka Introduced: 1944 Wingspan: 65 ft 7 in Length: 49 ft 3 in Speed: 340 mph at 19,344 ft Forumini Speed: 19 Service Ceiling: 30, 800 ft Armament: 2 x 20mm Type 99 Cannon (front and rear facing) 2,205 lbs bombs or 1 1,764 lb torpedo ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Excellent Endurance - Once per game, at the beginning of the Air Mission phase, you may remove a Rearming counter from this unit. Ranged Torpedo Attack - This unit's Torpedo attack has range 1. When this unit makes a range 1 attack, that attack can't benefit from Special Abilities. Kamikaze Attack - This unit can make a 10 dice Bomb attack instead of a Torpedo attack during your Air Attack phase. Destroy this unit after the attack.
Last Edit: Apr 25, 2021 17:31:30 GMT by weedsrock2
The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
One of the things to further consider is the maneuverability, training and number of craft on a Jill squadron vs a Francis squadron.
I think the distance attack should be nerfed a bit just because of that. A squad of 3 bigger bombers that didn't have the same level of training as 25 smaller, specialized torp bombers shouldn't pose the same threat
I don't have an issue with lowering the cost, though, now that ive looked closer at things
To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea
So let's stop using floating benchmarks. Trotting out the "3 patrol bomber" argument for the Frances, while ignoring it for the Greif and Spar, is kinda painful.