Again we go around in circles because of the reasons we bring a DD to battle and its helpful SA's
Lets face it:; At 9 your better off taking Wainwright at 8 your taking Monaghan
This unit just doesn't offer much; Avg AA [ with no bonus] , 1 OPG SA; no ASW bonus [ spending 8pts for a 4 ASW value] and a Torpedo value you want to curtail;
for that reason alone 9 with no DT1
My recommendation buy a Swiffer
It sounds like you'll be taking a different unit at either point value. So why not give others an option and go with the 8pts and DT1?
I think that at 8pts and DT1, the unit brings into the came a new dynamic. One that causes your opponent to make more choices with the possibility of overlooking this unit. It happened in my playtest. Let me ask this if facing this unit at 8pts w/DT1 and a Monaghan... which unit are you going to shoot at first?
Isn't giving new play/build options the purpose of making new units for the game, not just checking off units to be done?
Part of the attractiveness that I see of DT1 and this unit is it introduces a new DT that isn't as punishing as the one we have now: Defective Torps currently fail on 1 or 2.
Besides, as has been stated before, when playing the US you don't plan a strategy of winning a game around destroyer based torpedoes.
So in summary, I see the vote as this: If you want to go with something new and add options to the game: 8pts and DT1 If you want to keep the game stale with a DD that will most likely stay in the book anyway: 9 pts with no DT1
Fundamentally, mediocre is where lots of units are going to start falling. The body of work is so large, the sa combinations, the modern capable options are running out.
There are are some point efficency front runners that are going to extremely hard to oust in most unit catagories.
Units without a clearly defined niche will not cut through
This is 6 pages of mostly arguing over a technical specification. But shy of long lances, thats probably a one shot utility and the USN have compensating gunfire and air options better in almost all circumstances.
As an atlantic war USN dd, it probably has a more defined niche as an atlantic scenario all rounder. But scenario play isnt a big element of most players experience
USS SOMERS Class: Somers Commissioned: Dec 1937 Fate: Broken Up 1947 Displacement: 2047 tons standard Length(OA): 381 ft Beam: 36 ft Speed: 37 kts Armament: 8-5in/38 (4 x 2) 8-1.1 in (2 x 4) 2-0.5 in, 12-21 in (3 x 4) TT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Code Intercepts - At the end of the second player's Sea Movement step, you may place this unit in an adjacent sector that contains an enemy Auxiliary. Light Ship Tactics - Once per game, at the beginning of the Surface attack phase, you can declare you're using Light Ship Tactics. If you do, whenever an enemy Ship makes an attack against this unit this turn, roll a die. On a 5 or higher, this unit takes no damage from that attack. *Defective Torpedoes 1 - Whenever this unit would make a Torpedo attack, roll a die. On a 1, the attack automatically misses instead.
What if we replaced Light Ship Tactics with Lay Smoke Screen? That is a one of the top DD SAs. Would it still be a bookmark with Defective Torpedoes 1 at 8 points? I sure don't think so.
Light Ship Tactics isn't really a proper SA for an 8 vital DD come to think of it. It was meant for "light" DDs with a vital 6. (Brestois)
To me a good compromise on this unit is a 2-2-1 [ no power creep] torpedo line to represent the Torpedo problems
Smoke SA which would be a sought after SA in 41-42 Code Intercept to rep the unit at 9pts
8pts just cheapens the 2-8-2 line
We generally try to not mess around with core stats. That opens a pretty big Pandora's box. We use SAs to adjust as needed. But I don't see a resolution on this one. The people against negative SAs are so entrenched. Another option would be to keep the 2/2/2 and increase the cost to 10 without DT1. A 2/8/2 DD with smoke and those torps is a powerful unit.
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