USS Somers **Done**

I think thats the debate here;  your right 8pts with DT1

  Kind of puts you in the realm of Blykawica and the reasoning why do you take a DD into battle ??

I don't think most of us say its because of its MG's; How often you going to see a 10 pt Phelps for its 6-5-5 MG'S

  I think it's for the best value you get for one of its main purposes AA help; ASW; and Torpedo line

Blykawica is a great AA help addition;  the Somers could be for its unique USN Torpedo line;

  Add DT1 and you get  Ho Hum at any related cost; I guess the Team will decide
  

Yes without a doubt the USN doesn't need that power creep.

   To me looking at all the 2-8-2 DD's its not a bad unit at 8 with the negative SA.

I guess if you have to give it that torpedo line you don't have much of a choice.

   Starting with the Phelps I would look at it these lager DD's needing a higher cost to stay with whats been done;

So a higher cost and negative SA i can see making for a dusty unit for some.

  Why personally i don't think the Bagley is a bad unit at that cost; i'd take it over Gwin and think twice about Sterett

but something like the Gudgeon never its its only weapon and i don't like the odds.

 Makes me wonder why the Larger French DD's never got that 2-8-2 line??

Is there a way to factor Defective Torps as a positive.

Ei something like a 1-1-1 line that does additional damage. Or an existing torp sa as compensation

Highly unusual but perhaps the middle ground?

I still think we're twisting ourselves in a knot here trying to reflect "defective torps" on a unit that is only going to be rarely taken without it, even at 9 points. Very specific SAs make DDs valuable in this game: Lay Smoke, Sub Hunter, Close Escort, along with a few more situational others. There are a few other outliers, but lets face it, if a DD doesn't have at least one of those three, or perhaps a key SA that makes it good at night or weather, it doesn't get taken a lot. In 1941, the USN already has the following DDs available:

USS Phelps DD360
USS Wainwright DD419
USS Smith DD378
USS Monaghan DD354
USS Bagley DD386
USS Gwin DD433
USS Sterett (DD-407)
USS Edsall DD219
USS Ward DD139

Available in that group are Sub Hunterx3, Close Escort (on the same DD with Sub Hunter no less), Lay Smoke, DD Leader, Establish Screen, Damage Control, AA Veteran, Radar Fire Control, Bad Weather Fighter, Stalwart AA and Valiant Stand.  All great SAs that encourage a player to take those DDs.  Defective Torps appears exactly once, on Bagley, which despite its 2-2-2 torpedo line and Sub Hunter, almost never gets taken anymore - I'm not just a Club USN member, I'm the president! The USN honestly has just about everything they could ask for in 1941 destroyers without messing with Defective Torpedoes. If we add another USN DD to the game without one of the key DD SAs and with Defective Torps, we are creating a ship that will simply collect dust.

BTW the same is very true of the Submarine Gudgeon. Thanks to introduction of the superior Silversides and the low cost Mackerel (both 1941 subs), there really isn't a reason to mess with Gudgeon's defective torps. When introduced, we didn't have those other boats and Gudgeon did have a place.  It was painful when the torps missed over and over, but I used to take it in 1941 games.  I doubt we'll ever see it in a competitive game again.  You'd have to hold a gun to my head to get me to take it over Silversides.

If it were up to me, I'd stick to 2-2-2, no Defective Torps, and 9 points.  You might, maybe, see somebody take one...after they've taken a couple Wainwrights.

Building a unit as a dedicated third string seems rather pointless. But what are you to do.

Even without.