I guess what I am saying is Flak and MNN need to hash this out. Neither way is going to break the game. In the end, it is Flak's place to make a call if a compromise can't be found.
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Vital Cargo 8 - At the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to an island on your opponent's side of the map, you may remove it from the game and score 3 victory points. You can only remove one unit with Vital Cargo from the game per turn.
Landing 3 - Once per game, at the end of a turn, if this unit is adjacent to a coast or island on your opponent's side of the map, score 3 victory points. You can only score victory points from a Landing ability once per turn.
Convoy Formation - The sector this unit is in can contain one friendly Ship above the stacking limit, if one of the other Ships in the sector is an Auxiliary. ------------------
Changes: Cost from 4 -> 5 Vital Cargo from 3 -> 8 Remove Specific Loadout SA ------------------------------
Reasoning:
1) Iro is a 4 point transport with 1/4/2, 3AA, and vital Cargo 8 2) By giving it Vital Cargo 8, it makes it more of a target and something you want to protect while making it worthwhile taking. 2) By making it 5 points it keeps IRO from being MORE of a bookmark but gives you the opportunity to gain 11 (or more if you can pull off Landing multiple times) points for 5 spent (As opposed to 8 for 4 spent points with IRO). 3) Two less new SAs... they want to use both in one turn, nothing stopping them. It's a 1/4/3 and makes a great target even for strafing fighters.
Looking at ships with Vital Cargo you are giving players the option to double the points they spent as a return... this gives them a little more with the landing and makes it useful against installations as well. (Not exactly historically accurate, but hey it is a game...)
On Iro (and Neosho), the main reason you take it is to remove a "Slow" from one of your slow battleships. I don't think anything here is going to make it a bookmark.
I have never seen an Installation attacked using the Landing mechanic so I don't have a good feel for how it is impacted by this. I think that any SA that impacts the Landing tally from a distance would significantly change that whole interaction. Not sure if in a good or bad way. What SA would you propose?
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For Reference: INSTALLATION 12: This unit can be attacked only with Bomb or Gunnery attacks. Enemy Ships with a Landing ability that are in or adjacent to this unit’s sector can invade this unit. If they invade, roll two dice at the end of the turn and add the Landing values of all adjacent enemy Ships to the roll. On a total of 12 or higher, this unit is destroyed. (Heavy Shore Battery)
Invade 3: At the end of the turn, this unit is adjacent to an enemy installation. This unit adds +3 if you make an Installation invade roll.
Landing 3 would do the same thing, but also give you the chance to pick up 3 victory points. Mainly, I don't see this answering MNNs dislike of being able to do both mechanics with one unit. It just waters down the Landing mechanic.
If we are going with both mechanics then I say just put both SAs on the card per Flak and let players figure it out (argue over it.) It will no doubt need a clarification, but it won't be the first time!
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Kinai Maru, American Victory, and Jeremiah O’Brien have Vital Cargo. Blucher, Konigsberg, and Krasnyi Krim have Landing 3, LST and T1 Landing Ship have Landing 5, and Gunston Hall has Landing 10.
I would be amenable to landing 5 only. It doesn't modify the convoy scenario. The triggers for the points are the same and the installation interaction is functional.
Vital cargo is good because it removes points that your opponent could score. If I have a fleet like: 48 Nagato 04 Kinai Maru 48 Shigure x4 And I successfully use Vital Cargo, I cannot lose the game as long as I 1) keep Nagato afloat, and 2) capture at least one objective, because my opponent can only score 100 points from objectives, and 48 points from my non-Nagato units. The main advantage of this is that it allows one to build fleets with a single battleship in the 40-point range and play it as a battleship in the 50-point range (i. e. keep the BB alive and outlast your opponent through manœuvring and killing all of his small units). The same build logic can be applied to submarines and fighters (and many aircraft), which are also difficult to destroy. By contrast, if I brought a generic ship with Landing 6, I would need to bring over 50 points of high defence units (BBs, aircraft, and subs), since I know my Lander would probably be sunk in the aftermath.
Short version: We should make a Landing card if we think installations are more of a concern, and a Vital Cargo card if we think underpowered nations are the problem.
Last Edit: Aug 9, 2024 13:47:47 GMT by Theaetetus: Added a more concise formulation
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