Post by admiralwoodside on Dec 30, 2021 6:47:25 GMT
The reason I ask is because of a scholarly 2019 thread on the Secret Projects website, which argued that the Sparviero CV design often ascribed to the ship was based on outdated 1936 plans of the ROMA/AUGUSTUS conversion that were meant for both Aquila and Sparviero. Therefore, since Aquila had abandoned the 1936 gang-plank like fore deck, the Sparviero would have abandoned it as well, leading to a full deck carrier also for Sparviero, albeit possibly with Diesel propulsion for long range. On page one of the two page thread the author gives his first detailed 2-view drawing interpretation of all available data for the Sparviero CV:
As a matter of game balance, I think it is worth considering having a second Italian aircraft carrier carrying two W@S squadrons. The W@S card could retain the Neptune deck SA's, but add a Slow-# SA to reflect the long range Diesel propulsion still envisioned. Adding a second aircraft carried to the slower vessel would cost maybe 14pts, or perhaps 15pts like Aquila.
Or as my original thread title implied, maybe we should just allow for the taking of 2x RM Aquila CV cards as its new class limit, which would be immediate and easy, as well as a plausible what-if historically.
Agree for game balance this wouldn't be a bad idea but I found this elsewhere.
Slow progress on the extensive Aquila conversion and the obvious need for additional carriers led the navy to revive the idea of an austere, minimum-change liner conversion in 1942. The liner Augustus was selected for conversion as the Sparviero (“Kestrel”). It was designed to be, essentially, a large escort carrier. Sparviero was to have a continuous flight deck surmounting a simple, hull-top hanger, but no island. Torpedo bulges were fitted to the hull, but no other major modifications were considered. The air group was to be limited to 20 aircraft. Gun armament would consist of six 152-mm (6-in) single-purpose guns and four 102-mm (4-in) antiaircraft guns. With a waterline length of 664 ft (202 m), a beam of 83 ft (25 m), a draft of 30 ft (9 m), she was roughly the same size as Aquila. But her original, tired diesel machinery would give only a fraction of the earlier carrier’s power—28,000 hp on 4 shafts—and a maximum speed of only 18 knots.
This pretty much matches what we see on the Sparviero card in the decks. Due to the lack of a total overhaul it doesn't have the hanger space to hold the Aquila's complement of planes.
Post by admiralwoodside on Jan 12, 2022 12:26:47 GMT
Interesting information brenticus86. At least the two interpretations of what the Italian Navy could have done with the Sparviero match with respect to Diesel propulsion for long range and to the full length or continuous flight deck, i.e., without the very odd looking gang-plank like fore deck. LOL. The ships themselves were virtually the same size, however, so it seems plausible to me that they could have carried the same aircraft complement.
At any rate, there are a lot of collectors out there with more than one Aquila (not me however!) and the links I posted give a plausible excuse for expanding the class limit of Aquila to two, with the proviso that only one type of Sparviero could be chosen.
I had a vested interest in asking as there is a large collection of Italian WotC ships for sale down here in Australia and I was a bit tempted. But, the carrier complement of the Italian Navy is rather sad without at least 2x reasonably sized carriers. The French Navy looks like a far better secondary nation choice with its Joffre/Painleve what-if carriers.
Yeah, I agree the ships were approximately the same size. If they had done a full gut job on the Augustus she could have carried the same compliment as Aquila. Aquila was almost a rebuild which is one of the reasons it never got finished. That and they had no fuel to sortie with or without air cover.
I have no bones in this one. If you're gaming group wants to go that way then have at it. I actually like to use multiple forward air bases for the Italians. Since all their air cover was land based it makes it a little more authentic while still allowing fighter cover on the off rounds. I agree with the Joffre/Painleve, one of the first French minis to be painted. Hoping to get the 3 cap Brits online soon of the Implacable vintage painted this winter.
Check out jakk24's German Kriegsmarine Carrier Fleet on the Naval Modelling folder. Not historic but if it floats your boat then have at it. Make an Italian fleet to matches the Brits.
Having a spaverio card doesnt prevent and eventual falco card. There's at least 1 ship already available in 2 guises already.
Ive advocated for falco for a long time through the teams. Lack of suitable 1940 aircraft has been the largest stumbling block.
So far as the forum official limits document is concerned. Without a card its not likely to change. But its an easy houserule. For several years we played twin joffre's representative of painlieve. Its unlikely the liners powerplant would remain. Both ships were quite worn out afaik.
Another carrier conversion ive heard of was the water transport Sterope. I havent seen much more than passing reference to it.
Lastly, the RM had a larger seaplane carrier immediately after ww1. A hypothetical hosho/hermes sized carrier conversion is a interesting one to consider