I don't disagree with the need to have something for everyone so this is completely unrelated to the current discussion but have we ever done a poll of what type of people are into the game at this point? I'm a collector so I'm still here to see every class of ship represented. It would be interesting to see if there are no more casual gamers because the entry cost has gone up or if the historically focused people have all left because so many "fictional" ships have been added.
A lot of people have left because of the decks the teams have made. Jets, Midways etc.
There's hardly anyone left and nobody cares as long as they get their poorly thought out units.
I am yet to see a jet in gameplay. Look from my opinion ignoring operational units that were available in WW2 are selling the game and players short of different gameplay.
Jets are obviously used because we've had discussion about how they're broken. Me262 was developed om statistically considered footing to nudge allied players to invest in appropriate counters. If neglect to do so and rely on cheap escorts you get punished.
Steering back to the actual topic. Yes we could include both niobe in and the destroyer
I don't disagree with the need to have something for everyone so this is completely unrelated to the current discussion but have we ever done a poll of what type of people are into the game at this point? I'm a collector so I'm still here to see every class of ship represented. It would be interesting to see if there are no more casual gamers because the entry cost has gone up or if the historically focused people have all left because so many "fictional" ships have been added.
I think this would be an interesting poll to see where we are now regardless of new deck concerns. I will make one up.
The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
Slots as determined by weighting poll with only full slots counted.
Australia (3) 1. Westralia Auxiliary/Transport 2. Ocean/Sydney (iii) / Carrier Light 3. Gasgoyne / Destroyer Escort Brazil (1) 4. Bahia /cruiser small Canada (3) 5. Abathaskan/ destroyer wartime 6. Flower Class Corvette (Moose Jaw and others) /Destroyer convoy escort 7.Avro Lancaster Patrol Bomber/Heavy Bomber France (4) 8. Colbert / Cruiser Heavy 9. Operational Jean Bart / Battleship/Large ship 10. Dixmude / Carrier Escort 11. Sénégalais destroyer subhunter #. AIRCRAFT Greece (1) 12. Hydra/Prewar Destroyer NE (2) 13. Sumatra cruiser old 14. KNIL/RAAF Kittyhawk fighter bomber NZ (1) 15. Arabis/ convoy escort destroyer NO (1) 16. Sliepner / destroyer small UK (9) 17. Dorsetshire/Cruiser Heavy 18. FAA Hellcat/Carrier Fighter 19. Tarpon/ Carrier Bomber 20. Bishopdale /Auxiliary Oiler 21. KGV Class / Battleship Fast 22. Truant / Submarine 23. Cruiser 24. Superb / Cruiser 25. Mohawk / Destroyer US (9) 26. B-25B "Doolittle" Mitchell/ Patrol Bomber 27. Curtiss Hawk (Widely Exported) 28. Guam / Cruiser Very Large 29. Operational USS Hornet CV8 30. Sealion / submarine 31. Colorado / Battleship 32. USS Macdonough 33. Augusta / Cruiser 34. Blue destroyer SU (3) 35. Sevastapol Battery/ Installation 36. Maxim Gorky/ Cruiser 37. Frunze/Battleship FI (2) 38. Jarrarahlu / auxilary cruiser 39. V&W or M Class destroyer Germany (2) 40. BF109G 41. Operational Koln + Fi 282 /Cruiser Light # ww1 Battleship # AA ship : Destroyer or cruiser Italy (4) 42. Attlio Regulo /Cruiser Light 43. Bari /Cruiser Small 44. CANT 501 /Patrol Bomber 45. Freccia Destroyer / Fleet #. Interwar carrier Japan (7) 46. B4Y Jean - Carrier Bomber 47. Nakajima J1N Gekko - Landbased Fighter 48. Ise 1941 battleship small 49. Unryu class carrier carrier light 50. Makigomo destroyer modern 51. no. 17 Subchaser destroyer small 52. Akashi repairship # Cruiser? Romania (1) 53. Ex HMS Gorgon Siam (1) 54. Ann Bomber / Dive Bomber Argentina (1) 55. La Argentina / cruiser small Chile (1) 56. Chacabuco / Cruiser Old Spain (2) 57. Me109 Early 58. Sweden (2) 59. Gustav Sister / Battleship Small 60. Visby / DD Small Turkey (1) 61. Turkey / Medjidieh / Cruiser small Other (1) 62. Convoy Scenario Merchant Ship (Neutral) 63. Field Artillery Battery (Neutral) 4 Unassigned
Proposed Niche
Large Piece Flagship(Flag-rating) Destroyer Smoke Destroyer Convoy Escort New classification for navy Wartime destroyer Prewar destroyer Auxilary merchant/transport Auxiliary mine/minesweeping Basic Escort Basic Patrol Bomber Loiter Bomber Landbased/Landfighter Carrier Fighter Carrier Bomber Hull 1 sub Hull 2 sub Cruiser small Cruiser light Cruiser heavy Light/Escort Carrier Installation (include description of how it differentiates) Small Battleship Very Small Battleship/Monitor
In this exercise, a unit must be proposed with, nation, niche and then be seconded by another member. Niches can't be duplicated in a given navy. Though some will overlap. Most decks i have participated in have aimed to have a rough sense of balance. If one side has a ship type. The other in the red/blue dynamic does too.[/quote][/quote][/b] [/quote] [/quote]
German battleship Bayden/Bayern or Ostfriedland German AA options Destroyer or aux cruiser? Or both. Dornier 17 versus bf109g
Adding another slot again equals italy and frances allotments. No uboat/coastal craft
France Beaufighter type aircraft/lorrain/normandie class battleship (or landing ship bearn 45 Flaks recommends) Confirmation of FFN Senegalese DE
Japanese Cruiser option?
UK Cruisers - Options proposals: C Class, Swiftsure Class, Town Class, HMS Neptune Truant and Mohawk confirmation
Netherland - Knil B-25 Mitchell alternative? Sumatra confirmation or alternative
Finland - V&W class: these were sisters of the HMAS Vampire that were destroyed during the russian civil war. They were deemed uneconomical to repair when salvaged. As a what if theyre speed 2 destroyers with heavier armament than the historical option. An alternative is the M-Class (1916) which were only prevented for sale by the WNT
Japan Ise, confirm Unryu CVL class / CVE Chitose (extra slot: give 9 to japan, equal uk and us) Confirm destroyer Confirm type 17 SC - pros, existing scuplt, distinct from recent fleet and escort destroyers. Minesweeper/ASW roles
Four reserve slots are in hand as yet. We can assign them once these are confirmed
For the American, I just saw the Drachinfel episode on the USS Birmingham. With all the action she saw it's hard to believe this ship wasn't a card already. Yes, she is another Cleveland-class, but you wouldn't have to struggle finding SA's to assign to this one.
For the Dornier 17, I'm assuming you are thinking of a bombing option to complement the He 111? I'm for that. Germany doesn't need two torpedo patrol bombers for the same period. Used by several air forces so there could be some cover for some other minor nations, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, and Romania used them. I'm not opposed to the bf109G either. You can still use the original sculpt for a late war plane. Especially if it could be carrier based.
The French Beaufighter type wasn't all that successful. It could have been how it was used by the French Air Force but the losses were bad. I'll throw my hat behind a normandie or lorraine class BB.
For a japanese cruiser option, we don't have a Katori-class cruiser. Since these were training cruisers. I can see why. Not sure why Japan would build a new cruiser for training purposes when older ships were available but there it is. I'd second the Ashigara that was suggested earlier if we want a ship that lasted until 1945.
For Japan, I like the idea of a CVE Chitose. I don't know that I care about the original Ise since we have the Hyuga.
Finland, I like the V&W class destroyer idea.
For the Netherlands, I like the Knil B-25 Mitchell option. Sumatra was just old. She was scuttled at Normandy for a reason.
I would support another C Class Cruiser for the UK. When I think if UK cruisers, that's what I think of.
For the Dornier 17, I'm assuming you are thinking of a bombing option to complement the He 111? I'm for that. Germany doesn't need two torpedo patrol bombers for the same period. Used by several air forces so there could be some cover for some other minor nations, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Finland, and Romania used them. I'm not opposed to the bf109G either. You can still use the original sculpt for a late war plane. Especially if it could be carrier based
That was what I was going for; I don't think Do-17s ever carried torpedoes, only bombs. Since they were described as being fairly fast for an early war bomber it could have something like Nimble to give it a little more survivability. I do like the idea of giving it to a minor nation if the 109G is selected instead
My original search was for the Do-18, but that was basically on its way out by the time World War II started and the only notable thing I could find about it was that a Do-18 was the first Luftwaffe plane shot down by British Aircraft (courtesy of a Skua attached to Ark Royal). I think the Do-17 would be of more interest in the game.
Last Edit: Aug 1, 2021 17:50:46 GMT by iowaforever
The man who gets beat down isn't the loser. The guy who can't tough it out to the end, he's the one who loses.
For me the Do17 is the must aircraft now for Germany. It did quite well in the last deck vote and for a while I thought it was going to be in that deck. A well known aircraft and better than just another fighter variant.
For the UK I have been formulating a loose sketch of units and was waiting for the full deck release to avoid duplications. I actually thought they had at least one V&W type already but was getting mixed up with HMAS Vampire. This class needs to be represented. They were real workhorses in all areas and held the line when newer types were not risked. Modified types included LongRangeEscorts/ShortRangeEscorts/WclassAircraft with increased anti submarine/anti air fits respectively, shipping forward gun mounts. Having read several first hand accounts many sailors preferred sailing in these to newer war built economy types. War conditions meant cramped conditions regardless but apparently the sea handling was better and survivability, with a higher grade of steel construction compared to war built economising. Plenty of unit choices but HMS Vanoc(LRE) was well known for ramming/sinking U-100, pinning ace Schepke to the inside of the conning tower. This was in the same climactic running battle that saw Kreschmer's U-99 also sunk. Could be added to or kept cheap with just a ram SA.
Other potentials, HMS Keppel. Unrepresented Thornycraft class. Involved in many actions sinking five u boats and assisting two more. This was also Jackie Brooms command. He was close escort leader to PQ17 when receiving order 'convoy is to scatter'. In the latest deck we have two of the mid range ABC destroyers, so I think going for older types with possibly a newer war entry would be feasible. I have mentioned the 'arctic flotilla' O class previously but HMS Onslow could be fully loaded ability wise into a powerful unit. I think the tribals are probably best left for the commonwealth to pick from. Warramunga is another possibility here. Of the several escort/lesser DD classes, the not represented Black Swan Class is the obvious one. Again many possibles but HMS Starling was the most famous and obvious. CRUISERS: I can see merit in the talk of Superb and the counter with the older C type. Cairo, Calcutta and Coventry are the three AA choices left, all in the thick of it. Or a more standard type like Calypso, Ceres etc. AUX: Several options. A MAC ship like Empire MaCalpine would be similar to the dutch we have, with a swordfish detachment. A CAM ship like Springbank(carrying catapult Fulmars) would be interesting to see how the ability would be done. This already has a shapeways mini. CARRIER: For me prob an escort to another fleet at this stage, Vindex?, Tracker?. BBs: It looks like a choice between one of the older pre war BB types or the total opposite, the G-3 and N-3 designs. The N-3s, the full size Nelsons would be beasts with 18" guns. Some sources have the four potentially being named after saints, so HMS St. George would be a possible. G-3 battlecruise names could be Agincourt. A name projected for the last of the QE BBs but obviously not used. It also had the distinction of being the most heavily and turreted of the original dreadnought design, so would be apt in a way. Other possible names can be discarded if they were lost during WW1 as at this stage they were generally avoided for obvious reasons. SUBS: Talk has been of an early war T class as mentioned previously. A second U type would not be unwelcome and the most famous along with the Upholder was Alastair Mars' Unbroken.
Aircraft: Anson (cheap early war) Aircraft: ? Aircraft Carrier: Escort? Vindex? Tracker? Aux: HMS Springbank (Catapulted Fulmars) BB/BC: HMS St. George(N-3)?, HMS Agincourt(G-3)? Cruiser: HMS Cairo Cruiser: HMS Splendid DD: HMS Keppel, HMS Vanoc? DD: HMS Onslow Smaller Ship Type: HMS Starling SUB: HMS Unbroken, HMS Truant?
A work in progress and we haven't even got the latest deck yet but the horse has already bolted. I have other units listed for other nations but these are the closest I have to a fully slotted nation. Some US choices I have mentioned previously but I'm looking to research more suggestions.