weeds, you're a brave man for checking this out. I suspect it will be disappointing, but I hope otherwise! We expect a review 32 minutes after you open your boxes! :-)
weeds, you're a brave man for checking this out. I suspect it will be disappointing, but I hope otherwise! We expect a review 32 minutes after you open your boxes! :-)
I mainly bought it for the Rulebook. It would be years before I had the time to paint those miniatures! I am very curious to see what they changed from the old rules. Those rules were very poorly organized (typical for Mongoose) and it required a lot of setup to play a game.
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I just got my pre-order yesterday (ordered direct from Warlord, shipped to US East Coast). I got the Starter Box, and a US fleet bundle. Haven't had a chance to really open it up and go through it yet; I will try to get some comparison pictures taken and posted soon.
I just got my pre-order yesterday (ordered direct from Warlord, shipped to US East Coast). I got the Starter Box, and a US fleet bundle. Haven't had a chance to really open it up and go through it yet; I will try to get some comparison pictures taken and posted soon.
Got a few minutes to pull out the USS Arizona mini last night, assemble it, and pull out the W@S mini to compare it to:
The model consists of a resin hull/base, with multiple metal add-ons.
Some of the parts (masts and cranes especially) were a bit fiddly and a challenge to get off the "sprue" without damage.
Sadly, the posts for the turrets are too long to permit magnetizing without modification (this pic shows two 1/32" thick magnets in the well, with the "B" turret on top)
Here is the mini next to the WotC mini. As one might expect, the overall proportions and level of detail are nicer, though the barrels of the turrets do look a bit chunky.
The tripods in particular are much nicer than the WotC mini, and the new model also has more details such as the boat and aircraft cranes.
Overall, I think the level of detail on the new Victory At Sea mini is much nicer than the WotC mini, though were not quite up to GHQ level here. Not sure how it compares to a 3-D printed one, though.
I received my starter set and I have scanned through the instructions.
First, the miniatures. I think they are done quite nicely. Because they are resin cast they are a little sharper than the WotC plastic models, and probably a little more accurate depending on the model. And they are smooth! Aircraft are also 1/1800 scale so they are very small making any comparison moot. All I can say is I will need my glasses on to distinguish them! Mainly it comes down to style and effort. If you like the ships on an ocean water base these are quite nice. I personally do not like them fixed on a base because it makes painting hull camouflage very difficult. I think it comes down to a little better quality but you have to assemble and paint them. Price per ship appears to be a little higher than Shapeways and other 3D printed ships. It depends on the source.
Shapeways and other 3D printed miniatures have a lot of variation in quality depending on the sculptor and the material used. Roe's (Tiny Thingamajigs) sculpts are superb and look like they are a larger scale. He also manages to get the subtle curves and details to show up on Shapeways printed minis to a degree that is astonishing that there are no printing issues or rejects. Roe's aside, I think most of the others are similar in quality to the new Warlord Games minis. Sharpness and detail are similar. Subtle curves are probably still a little better on Warlord's resin. Of course, resin is guaranteed to have a smooth surface with no "stair-stepping" on curved surfaces.
If you don't like to paint miniatures then WotC is still you only option. Otherwise, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the other options. It is just a matter of the style you prefer, cost, and consistency if you care about that.
Second, the rules.
They are very similar to the original rules. Matthew Sprange is still credited as the author so that shouldn't be a surprise. I think they have simplified the rules a bit and that is good. Movement and turning rules have been simplified. Most notably, you are now allowed to pre-measure distances during the movement phase whereas pre-measuring was prohibited in the original rules. That is a big change, and probably a welcome one. There was a lot of criticism of that with the original game. Carriers rules are a little different too.
I was curious to see if the old individual unit "stat tables" were consistent with the new stat cards. It looks to me like they have been changed quite a bit. Some things have been removed and some added. The core stats and special traits also appear to be revised. The Northampton class has several differences between the two versions. So we can't use the old stat tables in the new game. I think the changes mostly reflect some simplification rather than intentional incompatibility, but both outcomes were probably intended.
There are no submarine/ASW rules in the basic rulebook. There was a lot of stuff added to the original game in the second book and online addendums. I don't know if they intend to release more rules later or not.
The rulebook has a better layout, and graphics and instructions are much clearer than the original rulebooks. For now, I think the game is simpler and more accessible than the original rules. One of my big turn-offs with the original game was the amount of time it took to create stat sheets for each ship prior to a game. The printed cards in the current version are infinitely better! The downside is you can't get the cards without buying the miniature. Just like WaS.
I am unlikely to pursue this game too far. I definitely don't want to buy an entirely new set of miniatures just to get the cards. That is probably the main barrier for me. I understand why they did it and I think it is better for anyone entering the game fresh and without an existing set of miniatures. But I need more 1:1800 scale WWII ship miniatures like I need a hole in the head!
I think it is an okay game for someone looking for a game that has a little more detail than WaS, but isn't overloaded with simulation details. Time to play depends on fleet size, but in my experience was about three times as long as WaS. But it doesn't take as long as a more "full on" simulation like Naval Thunder. Time required to play has always been a problem with naval games. WaS was the first (and only IMO) ship miniature game to break that barrier. So if you have more time to play then Victory at Sea may give you the additional detail you crave without taking an entire weekend to play. If they add more rules I am sure that will start to complicate the game and require more playtime. Much like most expansions do!
I hope this helps a little. I like the game, but I like WaS better. Unfortunately, I just don't know anyone near me that would be interested in playing a more detailed game that takes longer to play.
I received my starter set and I have scanned through the instructions.
First, the miniatures. I think they are done quite nicely. Because they are resin cast they are a little sharper than the WotC plastic models, and probably a little more accurate depending on the model. And they are smooth! Aircraft are also 1/1800 scale so they are very small making any comparison moot. All I can say is I will need my glasses on to distinguish them! Mainly it comes down to style and effort. If you like the ships on an ocean water base these are quite nice. I personally do not like them fixed on a base because it makes painting hull camouflage very difficult. I think it comes down to a little better quality but you have to assemble and paint them. Price per ship appears to be a little higher than Shapeways and other 3D printed ships. It depends on the source.
Shapeways and other 3D printed miniatures have a lot of variation in quality depending on the sculptor and the material used. Roe's (Tiny Thingamajigs) sculpts are superb and look like they are a larger scale. He also manages to get the subtle curves and details to show up on Shapeways printed minis to a degree that is astonishing that there are no printing issues or rejects. Roe's aside, I think most of the others are similar in quality to the new Warlord Games minis. Sharpness and detail are similar. Subtle curves are probably still a little better on Warlord's resin. Of course, resin is guaranteed to have a smooth surface with no "stair-stepping" on curved surfaces.
If you don't like to paint miniatures then WotC is still you only option. Otherwise, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the other options. It is just a matter of the style you prefer, cost, and consistency if you care about that.
Second, the rules.
They are very similar to the original rules. Matthew Sprange is still credited as the author so that shouldn't be a surprise. I think they have simplified the rules a bit and that is good. Movement and turning rules have been simplified. Most notably, you are now allowed to pre-measure distances during the movement phase whereas pre-measuring was prohibited in the original rules. That is a big change, and probably a welcome one. There was a lot of criticism of that with the original game. Carriers rules are a little different too.
I was curious to see if the old individual unit "stat tables" were consistent with the new stat cards. It looks to me like they have been changed quite a bit. Some things have been removed and some added. The core stats and special traits also appear to be revised. The Northampton class has several differences between the two versions. So we can't use the old stat tables in the new game. I think the changes mostly reflect some simplification rather than intentional incompatibility, but both outcomes were probably intended.
There are no submarine/ASW rules in the basic rulebook. There was a lot of stuff added to the original game in the second book and online addendums. I don't know if they intend to release more rules later or not.
The rulebook has a better layout, and graphics and instructions are much clearer than the original rulebooks. For now, I think the game is simpler and more accessible than the original rules. One of my big turn-offs with the original game was the amount of time it took to create stat sheets for each ship prior to a game. The printed cards in the current version are infinitely better! The downside is you can't get the cards without buying the miniature. Just like WaS.
I am unlikely to pursue this game too far. I definitely don't want to buy an entirely new set of miniatures just to get the cards. That is probably the main barrier for me. I understand why they did it and I think it is better for anyone entering the game fresh and without an existing set of miniatures. But I need more 1:1800 scale WWII ship miniatures like I need a hole in the head!
I think it is an okay game for someone looking for a game that has a little more detail than WaS, but isn't overloaded with simulation details. Time to play depends on fleet size, but in my experience was about three times as long as WaS. But it doesn't take as long as a more "full on" simulation like Naval Thunder. Time required to play has always been a problem with naval games. WaS was the first (and only IMO) ship miniature game to break that barrier. So if you have more time to play then Victory at Sea may give you the additional detail you crave without taking an entire weekend to play. If they add more rules I am sure that will start to complicate the game and require more playtime. Much like most expansions do!
I hope this helps a little. I like the game, but I like WaS better. Unfortunately, I just don't know anyone near me that would be interested in playing a more detailed game that takes longer to play.
I had a conversation with a couple of the guys from Warlord last night (part of a podcast interview). According to them, there is a 300-ish page rulebook coming out for the game that will include stats for all the major ships, plus some what-ifs like Montana. Supposedly will be out by the end of the year if the supply chains hold up.
I had a conversation with a couple of the guys from Warlord last night (part of a podcast interview). According to them, there is a 300-ish page rulebook coming out for the game that will include stats for all the major ships, plus some what-ifs like Montana. Supposedly will be out by the end of the year if the supply chains hold up.
That must be the mega-rulebook that a team of fans was putting together for Mongoose for several years.
The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
After watching the videos, I think I'll be avoiding the game. First, I'm not hip on metal guns and towers. The metal used just seems like it will get bent...a lot. Second, the firing being two-step where first you have to hit and then you have to roll to penetrate armor seems like it will slow things down a bit too much. Realistic? Probably, but the A&A minis games are meant to be quick and enjoyable and I'm not sure how excited I'll be to slow things down...