How about decks set before the war?

dracos42
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How about decks set before the war? Mar 25, 2018 2:11:04 GMT

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Post by dracos42 on Mar 25, 2018 2:11:04 GMT

This is an idea I've had for a few years. One or more expansion decks that cover the middle 1930s to before the war. There are a number of real and potential crises that could lead to naval clashes. The second Italian-Ethiopian war dragging in other nations. The (re)occupation of the Rhineland going hot. The second Sino-Japanese war and associated flashpoints (like the Panay incident). The Spanish Civil War.

In this time period, the fleets are smaller. Aircraft are less capable and fewer in number. Ships' antiaircraft is also less capable. No radar. No Long Lance torpedoes. No ER5, and ER4 should be less common. Modern battleships don't appear until 1937 when Dunkerque is commissioned.

What do people think?

Solomiranthius Moderator Posts: 394	How about decks set before the war? Mar 25, 2018 18:49:01 GMT via mobile Awesome_Pirate_Ninja_Master likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Solomiranthius on Mar 25, 2018 18:49:01 GMT I like it as a standalone game.
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mnnorthstars Deck E developer Posts: 9,164	How about decks set before the war? Mar 25, 2018 20:57:42 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mnnorthstars on Mar 25, 2018 20:57:42 GMT Ditto, that would be a nice what-if.
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dylar Forumini Ensign Posts: 34	How about decks set before the war? Mar 26, 2018 1:27:04 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by dylar on Mar 26, 2018 1:27:04 GMT The Type 93 Torpedo was introduced to service in 1933, so....Long Lance khakis.

sirmagnusfrydsen Forumini Ensign Lord of Scandinavian Units Posts: 311	How about decks set before the war? Mar 26, 2018 2:08:35 GMT dylar likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by sirmagnusfrydsen on Mar 26, 2018 2:08:35 GMT No.... unless it was a WW1 game.
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mnnorthstars Deck E developer Posts: 9,164	How about decks set before the war? Mar 26, 2018 12:47:06 GMT oscs likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by mnnorthstars on Mar 26, 2018 12:47:06 GMT A WWI game that ran 20 years past the end of the war? I think this would need to be a stand-alone from either conflict.
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Syzmo
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How about decks set before the war? Mar 27, 2018 10:21:02 GMT

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Post by Syzmo on Mar 27, 2018 10:21:02 GMT

I like the idea. The US and Japan had completely different air groups in 39 which are not represented in the game. One could argue that the war started in 36 with the Japanese withdrawal from the treaties, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino Japanese War. You could potentially move the scope of the game back a few years without needing to make it stand alone.

Swizzle
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How about decks set before the war? Mar 27, 2018 14:50:33 GMT

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Post by Swizzle on Mar 27, 2018 14:50:33 GMT

Mar 27, 2018 10:21:02 GMT Syzmo said:

I like the idea. The US and Japan had completely different air groups in 39 which are not represented in the game. One could argue that the war started in 36 with the Japanese withdrawal from the treaties, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino Japanese War. You could potentially move the scope of the game back a few years without needing to make it stand alone.

If we "expand" the W@S to include the earlier years, say 1936 to 1941 more broadly (US units existed before 1941, but were very different, as stated), it goes against the grain of those that don't like multiple cards for the same ship. (SWO gave some US BB's 3 cards because of massive refits, and I am one who loves that!). However, their point gets stronger as:

1. What current cards are "re-dated" to an earlier time?
2. What current cards would need to be remade before being "re-dated" to an earlier time?
3. We need planes for those times, probably all new cards! (We generally "assume" no end date for cards, because as they are obsolete, no one takes them.)
4. Need new SA's for that time frame. Probably not many.
5. How many people really want "Really Bad Torpedo" as an SA for that time frame? (only partially kidding)

It can be a fun way to expand the game, and to teach ourselves about all the pre-WWII stuff going on in many oceans before the war.

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jlebaron13 Forumini Ensign Posts: 159	How about decks set before the war? Mar 28, 2018 0:18:42 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by jlebaron13 on Mar 28, 2018 0:18:42 GMT Love those SWO refit cards for the BB's! Use them exclusively for units that have them.

brass Forumini Ensign Posts: 29	How about decks set before the war? Mar 30, 2018 16:10:32 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by brass on Mar 30, 2018 16:10:32 GMT Mar 26, 2018 1:27:04 GMT dylar said: The Type 93 Torpedo was introduced to service in 1933, so....Long Lance khakis. Developed by 1933, entered service in 1935, actually, but your point still stands.
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dracos42
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Posts: 1,311

How about decks set before the war? Mar 31, 2018 1:34:04 GMT

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Post by dracos42 on Mar 31, 2018 1:34:04 GMT

Mar 30, 2018 16:10:32 GMT brass said:

Mar 26, 2018 1:27:04 GMT dylar said:

The Type 93 Torpedo was introduced to service in 1933, so....Long Lance khakis.

Developed by 1933, entered service in 1935, actually, but your point still stands.

My mistake. I thought I remembered reading that the Type 93 entered service later in the 30's. Though I don't know how long it took to fit the Type 93 to the older cruisers - ah, pg. 188 of Fleets of World War II, the Long Lance started to replace older torpedoes on the heavy cruisers by 1940. The light cruisers that carried Long Lances apparently didn't begin to receive them until 1940 or later.

In the mid/late-30's, the post-Fubuki DDs have the Type 93 torpedoes, while the cruisers have the non-LL 24" torpedoes.

Last Edit: Mar 31, 2018 12:04:58 GMT by dracos42

dracos42
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Posts: 1,311

How about decks set before the war? Mar 31, 2018 2:06:37 GMT

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Post by dracos42 on Mar 31, 2018 2:06:37 GMT

Mar 27, 2018 10:21:02 GMT Syzmo said:

I like the idea. The US and Japan had completely different air groups in 39 which are not represented in the game. One could argue that the war started in 36 with the Japanese withdrawal from the treaties, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino Japanese War. You could potentially move the scope of the game back a few years without needing to make it stand alone.

I don't remember if I had considered the starting years for the US and Japan (and the USSR). We could move Japan and the US back to 1939 without leaving the core war years.

How far back can we go with aircraft? I think 1935-36 would be okay.

oscs Forumini Ensign Posts: 40	How about decks set before the war? May 2, 2018 1:17:35 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by oscs on May 2, 2018 1:17:35 GMT great! I would be interested.

ironblaster
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Posts: 27

How about decks set before the war? May 2, 2018 1:46:38 GMT via mobile

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Post by ironblaster on May 2, 2018 1:46:38 GMT

Mar 27, 2018 14:50:33 GMT Swizzle said:

Mar 27, 2018 10:21:02 GMT Syzmo said:

I like the idea. The US and Japan had completely different air groups in 39 which are not represented in the game. One could argue that the war started in 36 with the Japanese withdrawal from the treaties, the Spanish Civil War and the Second Sino Japanese War. You could potentially move the scope of the game back a few years without needing to make it stand alone.

If we "expand" the W@S to include the earlier years, say 1936 to 1941 more broadly (US units existed before 1941, but were very different, as stated), it goes against the grain of those that don't like multiple cards for the same ship. (SWO gave some US BB's 3 cards because of massive refits, and I am one who loves that!). However, their point gets stronger as:

1. What current cards are "re-dated" to an earlier time?
2. What current cards would need to be remade before being "re-dated" to an earlier time?
3. We need planes for those times, probably all new cards! (We generally "assume" no end date for cards, because as they are obsolete, no one takes them.)
4. Need new SA's for that time frame. Probably not many.
5. How many people really want "Really Bad Torpedo" as an SA for that time frame? (only partially kidding)

It can be a fun way to expand the game, and to teach ourselves about all the pre-WWII stuff going on in many oceans before the war.

I agree, flesh this out some more and I think everyone would be aboard, I mean it wouldn't affect the current layout, so why not have more variety. The learning aspect of it is what really grabs my interest. I love reading all the tid bits about all the different ships and hardware. Great ideas guys!

Last Edit: May 2, 2018 1:47:49 GMT by ironblaster

brikabraka
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Posts: 68

How about decks set before the war? May 2, 2018 2:09:21 GMT oscs likes this

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Post by brikabraka on May 2, 2018 2:09:21 GMT

In this case would we be talking about doing away with the Axis and allies as sides? Are we doing just nation builds and pre-war scenarios like Plan Orange? Would the British fleet combat the US fleet in alternative realities? I would like it if we run the date of the ship cards as they were created. Then depending on the year of the conflict have separate refit cards as upgrades for extra cost points. Of course this would take a massive rework of the game.

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How about decks set before the war?

Post by dracos42 on Mar 25, 2018 2:11:04 GMT

Post by Solomiranthius on Mar 25, 2018 18:49:01 GMT

Post by mnnorthstars on Mar 25, 2018 20:57:42 GMT

Post by dylar on Mar 26, 2018 1:27:04 GMT

Post by sirmagnusfrydsen on Mar 26, 2018 2:08:35 GMT

Post by mnnorthstars on Mar 26, 2018 12:47:06 GMT

Post by Syzmo on Mar 27, 2018 10:21:02 GMT

Post by Swizzle on Mar 27, 2018 14:50:33 GMT

Post by jlebaron13 on Mar 28, 2018 0:18:42 GMT

Post by brass on Mar 30, 2018 16:10:32 GMT

Post by dracos42 on Mar 31, 2018 1:34:04 GMT

Post by dracos42 on Mar 31, 2018 2:06:37 GMT

Post by oscs on May 2, 2018 1:17:35 GMT

Post by ironblaster on May 2, 2018 1:46:38 GMT

Post by brikabraka on May 2, 2018 2:09:21 GMT

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