No;;; It was a wasted opportunity; I've done some research on the ship and its not a CVL;; it may be a bit less than most wanted in a 3 cap carrier, but a lot a lessons learned from midway along with innovative mass production techniques with limited war time materials made this a lot better than a Junyo or Hiyo game alike. The Hiryu's and Soryu's of the late war era were not going to stand up to any determined USN attack; but least throwing out some cheaper 3 cap carriers later in the war would better than cap 2's; we all know the limited value WAS style the cap 1's and 2's have. The hairs difference in the WAS guidelines from this unit being a cap 3 surly could have had at least some limited cap SA; although who really knows what it would have carried if condition where different. Further i think it was hard to cost it as a cap 2 with the limited SA's you could give it as an untried Class; its just one of those units you do one way or the other; i just think game wise cap 3 plays better; The USN has its Wasp and Ranger the IJN with a 19 pt. no frills cap 3 makes it interesting.
12 (+3 reserve) Zeros 27 (+3) Vals 18 (+2) Kates total 57 aircraft plus 8 reserves
Revised complement designed in 1943 to account for expected new aircraft:
18 (+2) Sams 27 (+0) Judys 6 (+0) Myrts (to be deck parked) total 51 aircraft plus 2 reserves
When the ships were commissioned in 1944 the following is the complement they were going to have because the Sam and Myrt were not ready. All of this is from the very extensive and detailed Conways Warship 2010 article.
You know what you could say to all this numbers; the Independence class in this game is a CVL cap 2 they never operated more than 35 ac in any major battle about the same as the CVE Sangamon They don't even live up to the WAS guidelines as a cap 2; it's all perception and the numbers you want to believe; what really matters is how they preformed in combat operations; The Unryu class really never had that opportunity; if you take the time to research you will see the design was better prepared than her predecessor to deal with that. Its not some flunky merchant conversion turn into a carrier like Junyo that unless condition were perfect it couldn't launch Kates.
Despite what some claim, the cap limit isn't (Aircraft Carried / 25). There's room for wiggle.
That said, the Team's Unryu card, while kind of a wasted opportunity, is one possible representation of the class. It's not the best one, and there are others.
As ive said before, carrier cap was probably worked out on roles before numbers in the beginning- fleet carrier: TB, DB and fighters, light carriers Bombers and fighters, escort carriers bombers or fighter. From that perspective the outliers make a more sense. 25 aircraft relates to a squadron and shouldnt automatically be attached to carriers i think
Despite what some claim, the cap limit isn't (Aircraft Carried / 25). There's room for wiggle.
That said, the Team's Unryu card, while kind of a wasted opportunity, is one possible representation of the class. It's not the best one, and there are others.
Yourself,SWO and others put out some nice cards; they are the result of ones work with possibly help from a few others; Personally i believe a Team; especially if it is product is consider more Game, Forum and Mainstream recognized using the words wasted opportunity is very kind.
The perspective I took with the Unryu class was that they were virtual Hiryu clones (accept for the weird portside island), and therefore made them CAP 2. The reduction in elevators (deleting the midships one) should have expanded hanger bay capacity, if anything.
Hiryu
Unryu
Another approach I've always considered viable on the Unryu class was to make them CAP 2, but give them strong Scouting or Reconnaissance SAs to reflect the use of the Myrts in projected latewar IJN air groups. At 15 points, I don't consider the SeaGod Unryu a horrible CAP 2 carrier, but given the SAs, I would probably opt for Junyo first at the same cost.
BTW, so as not to totally over focus on the dislikes, two other units I like a lot.... Hiryu and Coral Sea Zuikaku. Hiryu was absolutely essential to round out the IJN's early war carrier force and Coral Sea Zuikaku makes that mini useful again. Hiryu also does nice job helping out early war IJN air, which can be a little tough to use against 8 AA ships (though it does make the damn Grace flat-out gross). If I'm taking a big IJN carrier group it a game, it is very hard to leave Hiryu out, despite being nearly as vulnerable as Soryu.
I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way. - Captain John Paul Jones
I Really like the Sea gods Indianapolis, i Hardly have a USN 41-43 build with out her. i also Love the Ranger, shes like the wasp buy has better SAs. I'm in the prosses of getting a CS Zuikaku. AH and The FM-2! I love that card.
Since it was brought up; Some simple facts about Unryu's elevators. Of the six elevators on Hiryu and Soryu; Unryu's were larger than 5 of them. They could carry 4000lbs more aircraft and faster; Their areas combined was about 90percent of Soryu and 75percent of Hiryu. Eliminating the center lift did strengthen the hull; They planned for future aircraft and lessons learned at Midway; The smaller lifts on Hiryu and Soryu and rearming doctrine greatly hinder combat operations and they paid for it at Midway. Moving and enlarging the island helped with combat planning and flight operations another lesson learned from Midway. Designers can find any reason to make it less; but for WAS purposes anything less than cap 3 just seems a wasted opportunity for some interesting game design and play.
I can see what they were going for with Unryu, but I just don't think it works. This was a three class limit (more if you play it that way) carrier that needed to be able to compete with the Essex class, and a 2 cap was not the solution. I'd say the team card is good, but I think one ought to add +1 cap to make it 3, and increase the points from 15 to 19.
I can see what they were going for with Unryu, but I just don't think it works. This was a three class limit (more if you play it that way) carrier that needed to be able to compete with the Essex class, and a 2 cap was not the solution. I'd say the team card is good, but I think one ought to add +1 cap to make it 3, and increase the points from 15 to 19.
Just along the lines i was thinking; Think it makes for some nice build talk; Of course at 19pts they are no frills CV's at most 1 SA;; BUT at 38pts for 6 cap how does the USN player respond like wise; Wasp --Ranger 35pts who's got the upper hand now; 2 Yorktowns 44 -45pts; you add Hiryu or Shokaku for the SA's to Unryu 39-40pts. nice pt saving to use elsewhere. But most likely its late war and your up against an Essex so USN adds an Independence 42pts for 6cap; IJN can go 2Unryu 38pts. or add Hiryu/Shokaku for less savings. Not a big fan of the costing of Shokaku RB tried to correct that with Zuikaku and expansion just made it worse with Coral Sea; I call these the good bad units;everybody loves them. I'll never use the bad bad units Ala Bolzano, Myoko "please redo them their terrible for the game" BUT the Haguro is just an anomaly leave it be. LOL
It certainly causes problems in my opinion that Shokaku costed the same as Soryu. The Shokaku class was much bigger and better protected than the Soryu, and that should have been reflected in cost. In fact, here's a hypothetical scenario: What if Shokaku cost 24 and Zuikaku cost 22? Now suddenly Zuikaku looks much better already.