Two fleet carriers this week. HMS Implacable was a public vote pick, and MI Akagi was a development team pick. Other than the Essex class there aren't many fleet carriers left to do.
HMS Implacable
Sister ship to HMS Indefatigable (one of my favorite names), we did something a little different for a carrier by giving it Bad Weather Fighter.
One of the many "Set I anomalies" was Akagi having 4 hull points instead of the 5 she actually rates by tonnage. There was an interest in some quarters to have an "Operational Variant" that gave her the 5 hull point stat. However, the Set I Akagi is very popular and favorably costed so we didn't want to obsolete that card. How to do that and have both cards be desirable? The original Akagi has the "virtuous three" SAs of Expert fighter, bomber, and torpedo bomber. That is an advantage that we thought should remain unique. "Operation MI" (Battle of Midway) Akagi has the Carrier Leader SA to represent her role in the fleet, and drops Expert Torpedo bomber, but bumps Expert Dogfighter to 2. Add in the bump to hull 5 and we end up with the cost increased by one. (Some thought it should go up by two, some thought it shouldn't go up at all.) Note that the class limits for Akagi will remain one. So if you play with class limits you will have to choose which version of Akagi best suits your fleet build and strategy.
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I love them both. Akagi was always a heart piece to me, being able to do both carrier and cruiser duty. With 5 hull, she's even more capable of going to fight over an objective when no battleships are around.
I wonder why Teams feel they need to touch the games Iconic units; All I read is about guide lines; every unit has to be the perfect Barbie Doll; Forget about intangibles. What in real life did the Akagi ever do to deserve a Hull of 5; oh yes the one battle it was at it blew up like a house of cards. The perfect blend of two original game gems Kaga and Akagi at 27pts; the brilliance of RB; the idea he brought forth with weakness's and strengths for both units and representing it in game play. Good job team just keep messing with whats right with the game.
I wonder why Teams feel they need to touch the games Iconic units; All I read is about guide lines; every unit has to be the perfect Barbie Doll; Forget about intangibles. What in real life did the Akagi ever do to deserve a Hull of 5; oh yes the one battle it was at it blew up like a house of cards. The perfect blend of two original game gems Kaga and Akagi at 27pts; the brilliance of RB; the idea he brought forth with weakness's and strengths for both units and representing it in game play. Good job team just keep messing with whats right with the game.
Actually, the tendency of Japanese carriers to "explode" would be reflected more in their vital armor, not their hull points, which, as I understand it, almost solely reflect tonnage/displacement. This has been discussed extensively on this forum, where you can even find a thread explaining exactly how the stats for a unit are determined. Stop spouting your "Barbie Doll," and "Good job team just keep messing with whats right with the game" nonsense and get onboard with the community to which Richard Baker has passed on his beloved War at Sea, which was certainly not (nor is) a perfect game, with no room for improvement or growth.
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
waratsea4 (and Fear God...) You have a right to your opinion. And I think those opinions should be expressed. Critiques have always had a useful influence on future deck development as they should.
RB (and a lot of others) thought the first Set would be the only set ever produced. WaS turned out to be a surprise hit, and it took almost two years to get Set 2 out. There is no question that RB made some "stat adjustments" to ensure the game was balanced with Set I. However, several of those "adjustments" went on to haunt him (and us) in the future. From Set II onward it has only been necessary to maintain balance between Axis and Allies across all sets. No individual set after the first one is balanced if you try to play with one exclusively. You can make a balanced match out of any set, but you have to work at it. Set I had to stand on its own.
Although I wasn't one of the team to vote for an Operational Akagi, I also don't mind it. The alternative was to do a "what if" sister to Taiho (which I favored) that would have been hated on by the "anti-fantasy" faction. So there is no winning at this point. We are out of "capital ships" and those drive the game - like it or not. RB already felt it was necessary to do operational variants by Set VI to maintain interest. We are far beyond that now and I think we have done a good job of 1) minimizing the creation of operational variants to areas where we are out of alternatives and/or 2) focusing mostly on variants where the original units were little used for one reason or another. The original Akagi clearly had the wrong hull points by the guidelines worked out from the first six sets, and that provided a hook to do a variant. With the appearance of USS Midway and a bunch of Essex class sisters for the US there was an identified need to help the IJN out in the CV area. As I stated above, in this case we knew the existing Akagi was already a very good unit so we went out of our way (with a very, very long development thread and playtesting thread) to make sure this was an "alternative" rather than a replacement. I think we did okay.
waratsea4 (and Fear God...) You have a right to your opinion. And I think those opinions should be expressed. Critiques have always had a useful influence on future deck development as they should.
RB (and a lot of others) thought the first Set would be the only set ever produced. WaS turned out to be a surprise hit, and it took almost two years to get Set 2 out. There is no question that RB made some "stat adjustments" to ensure the game was balanced with Set I. However, several of those "adjustments" went on to haunt him (and us) in the future. From Set II onward it has only been necessary to maintain balance between Axis and Allies across all sets. No individual set after the first one is balanced if you try to play with one exclusively. You can make a balanced match out of any set, but you have to work at it. Set I had to stand on its own.
Although I wasn't one of the team to vote for an Operational Akagi, I also don't mind it. The alternative was to do a "what if" sister to Taiho (which I favored) that would have been hated on by the "anti-fantasy" faction. So there is no winning at this point. We are out of "capital ships" and those drive the game - like it or not. RB already felt it was necessary to do operational variants by Set VI to maintain interest. We are far beyond that now and I think we have done a good job of 1) minimizing the creation of operational variants to areas where we are out of alternatives and/or 2) focusing mostly on variants where the original units were little used for one reason or another. The original Akagi clearly had the wrong hull points by the guidelines worked out from the first six sets, and that provided a hook to do a variant. With the appearance of USS Midway and a bunch of Essex class sisters for the US there was an identified need to help the IJN out in the CV area. As I stated above, in this case we knew the existing Akagi was already a very good unit so we went out of our way (with a very, very long development thread and playtesting thread) to make sure this was an "alternative" rather than a replacement. I think we did okay.
Post by Capt. Strange on Dec 13, 2017 14:56:36 GMT
Gotta admit I'm not a fan of either of these.
The Akagi always stood out as a good solid unit that held it's own throughout the run of the game and even through the sea-god decks. Now we have a buffed up, good defensive AA package (i.e. ex dog 2) for only 1 more point? Seems a tad undercosted for sure, probably should be 29 if not 30, and entirely unnecessary in it's creation. First impression is the team phoned this one in or somebody pulled an AndyPalmer...
As for Implacable, I don't really like the idea of BWF on a carrier of that defensive caliber. That thing will be absolute murder when paired up with a smoking DD on the back line. I also think this one is undercosted by a point or 2, however I really gotta go back thru the team deck UK carriers to be sure.
waratsea4 (and Fear God...) You have a right to your opinion. And I think those opinions should be expressed. Critiques have always had a useful influence on future deck development as they should.
RB (and a lot of others) thought the first Set would be the only set ever produced. WaS turned out to be a surprise hit, and it took almost two years to get Set 2 out. There is no question that RB made some "stat adjustments" to ensure the game was balanced with Set I. However, several of those "adjustments" went on to haunt him (and us) in the future. From Set II onward it has only been necessary to maintain balance between Axis and Allies across all sets. No individual set after the first one is balanced if you try to play with one exclusively. You can make a balanced match out of any set, but you have to work at it. Set I had to stand on its own.
Although I wasn't one of the team to vote for an Operational Akagi, I also don't mind it. The alternative was to do a "what if" sister to Taiho (which I favored) that would have been hated on by the "anti-fantasy" faction. So there is no winning at this point. We are out of "capital ships" and those drive the game - like it or not. RB already felt it was necessary to do operational variants by Set VI to maintain interest. We are far beyond that now and I think we have done a good job of 1) minimizing the creation of operational variants to areas where we are out of alternatives and/or 2) focusing mostly on variants where the original units were little used for one reason or another. The original Akagi clearly had the wrong hull points by the guidelines worked out from the first six sets, and that provided a hook to do a variant. With the appearance of USS Midway and a bunch of Essex class sisters for the US there was an identified need to help the IJN out in the CV area. As I stated above, in this case we knew the existing Akagi was already a very good unit so we went out of our way (with a very, very long development thread and playtesting thread) to make sure this was an "alternative" rather than a replacement. I think we did okay..
I've been here from expansions beginning and heard from you many times; we can't correct units "no errata," its not expansions job. I argued than realized your right who is anybody to correct the creators work, except the creator himself. Somebody is always going to disagree. If you strongly believe a unit akla Haguro; Balzano and in my case Shokaku is grossly wrong don't use it or work it out with your opponent. Expansion went ahead and did some nice work adding new units like Hiryu or a slightly corrected Hiei or even the fantasy Imprero. Fantasy does drive some people away, but it is a must for game balance, nation building and the longevity of expansion.
Some units probably should not have been made aka Midway;ME 262; expansion Montana RB; reading some on line matches i've seen them dominate builds. Than this ridiculous Operational Unit thing comes out under the guise RB opened some flood gate; OC HOOD obsoleted the other and you know as well as i the Shokaku Zuikaku costing was not fixed by a CS Zuikaku; now we touch a unit we presumed done wrong by the creator with guide lines created clearly by whom??
Your first instincts were right the only way the IJN is going to compete with the added Midway, Essex Class CV's was with Fantasy CV's; not redoing Akagi creating alternatives units for the game should not be expansions job it effects all aspects of the game, not just dealing with late war balance. Many as Fear God and Dreadnoughts may tell me to stuff it; but I can't see how going in this direction effects the game in a positive manner.
Your first instincts were right the only way the IJN is going to compete with the added Midway, Essex Class CV's was with Fantasy CV's; not redoing Akagi creating alternatives units for the game should not be expansions job it effects all aspects of the game, not just dealing with late war balance. Many as Fear God and Dreadnoughts may tell me to stuff it; but I can't see how going in this direction effects the game in a positive manner.
One of the main drivers for me preferring a sister to Taiho over an Operational Akagi was the class limit for the "Taiho class" would have been increased to two. I think that alone would have been far, far more beneficial to the IJN than an alternative Akagi. It lost out in the vote. There were pros and cons to each direction. The "a new uniquely named what-if ship increases the class limit" rule (which we totally admit we had to decide on ourselves because there was no WotC precedent) infuriates some people. However, I agree that without that rule the Axis in particular are toast in mid- to late-war scenarios.
Maybe next time. If there is a next time.
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