#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done

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#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Jan 24, 2023 14:08:19 GMT

Quote

Post by Guest on Jan 24, 2023 14:08:19 GMT

Jan 23, 2023 22:53:13 GMT flakstruk said:

An ability that requires a clarification is not kiss.

The wording that provides UK carriers the capability to base US aircraft in the specific historic restrictions optional rules is the basis of the ability. It at that point the wordier definition was deemed neccesary. There is no logical reason not to follow that example

“An ability that requires a clarification is not kiss.“
Yet that is what we have already. I.e. Rufe with Sea Basing, USS Essex and the whole list of SA’s in the official WotC clarification document.

“The wording that provides UK carriers the capability to base US aircraft in the specific historic restrictions optional rules is the basis of the ability. It at that point the wordier definition was deemed neccesary. There is no logical reason not to follow that example.”
Yes we could use that optional rule as a model for this.
The example you give is in the rule book not on the card so that should be the example you should be following.
RB game many examples on how you should be doing things but your doing your best not to follow him and normal accepted methods.

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,695

#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 20, 2023 3:11:33 GMT Theaetetus likes this

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Mar 20, 2023 3:11:33 GMT

So i made a discovery.

The RAAF did operate 1 carrier aircraft that we have a card for. Not only that, they operated other similiar aircraft and aircraft that shared the supply chain. Too boot, the government aircraft production department modified a beaufighter to the cyclone instead of its production bristol hercules. Proving the RAAF/RAN could sustain the type.

The aircraft, SB2C Helldiver/A-25 Shrike. About 300 were ordered alongside Vultee Vengance divebombers but fighter-bombers were taking over and the Vultee's were withdrawn and the Helldiver order was redirected to the general allied pool of replacement aircraft in the pacific.

So while i initially thought to suggest swapping the Empire SA for Helldiver Operations, or more colourfully, "Shrike Force". I think that the general gist of the Empire SA can stay but it can be more specific to Australia's actual operations and unique for the commonwealth.

My proposal is to revise, again to:

Dive Bomber Operations - Friendly dive bombers or aircraft that can choose to deploy as a dive bomber can base on this unit. If an aircraft cant base on a carrier, it can't use this ability.

ASW Screen - Divebombers based on this unit may make a 3 dice ASW attack instead of thier normal attack

Aircraft allowed
Navy Corsair, noted as on RN colossus class ships
Barracuda, noted as on RN colossus ships
Helldiver, purchased but not used operationally.
Vindicator, not used but the next in vought's DB line Vengance was
Firefly, used 47 onward and on RN colossus class ships

Dauntless - not justified but RNZAF maybe?
Ln401Skua, Abalcore, br810 - no justifucation but mediocre units. Br810 is pretty close to a beaufighter like the RAAF did use though.

Last Edit: Mar 21, 2023 10:38:19 GMT by flakstruk

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,695

#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 20, 2023 4:15:09 GMT

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Mar 20, 2023 4:15:09 GMT

Seperate to the proposal, my rationale was that this is the most disappointing card in the deck. It offers no meaningful capability or historical meaningfulness. In every criteria colossus was superior and logic choice. Except for specific onerous houseruled circumstances.

While the above isnt a massive change, it does give an identity (a DB carrier with DB bonus), a patina of historical authenticity (raaf using dbs for asw 1944, shrikes being ordered, colossus class air groups 1944, RAAF never used single engined TBs) that i think fixeds a mediocre compromise from before

Last Edit: Mar 20, 2023 4:21:08 GMT by flakstruk

Theaetetus Forumini Rear Admiral Posts: 4,902	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 22, 2023 13:12:07 GMT via mobile Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Theaetetus on Mar 22, 2023 13:12:07 GMT I move to adopt I like ASW Screen—I would definitely bring this and 2 Navy Corsairs or even a Skua and other DB as a deterrent against subs.
	University Student— Lover of Plato, Aristotle, War At Sea, Palestrina, and Mozart

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,695

#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 24, 2023 11:51:13 GMT

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Mar 24, 2023 11:51:13 GMT

Mar 19, 2022 15:43:09 GMT attackercat said:

Mar 11, 2022 1:22:49 GMT admiralwoodside said:

In case I am not logged on at the time of a vote on the issue, I vote in advance for class limit 2 due to historical evidence that two different carriers of this class were offered to the RAN during WW2.

I like the class limit of 2 as well. Given the difficulties in lining up an Australian fleet as it stands now, I see no inherent power upset in allowing up to 2 carriers, while at the same time giving Aussie fleets a more robust fleet option. Lets face it they won't have the unit power to challenge some larger Axis fleet builds, but having two carriers compared to just one for a mid-point match would allow a more competitive setup.

I do agree also with the UK aircraft, as the vast majority of Australian use of US aircraft was in an Army capacity (granted, they didn't have carriers, but aircraft were still used by a separate branch and not included in naval operations, for the most part). Examples being the SB2C Helldiver, that the US Army designation was the A-25A Shrike. The Shrike was the model provided to the Aussies for evaluation, and only one example was evaluated, the naval/carrier Helldiver version wasn't provided for evaluation.

Therefore it would make more sense to me (imo) to use UK aircraft with the carrier.

Attackercat mentioned the helldiver but it got missed in the shuffle

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,695

#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 26, 2023 18:54:10 GMT Theaetetus likes this

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Mar 26, 2023 18:54:10 GMT

Proposal too change the current

HMAS Melbourne - 1945
Speed 2
Capacity 2

MG 0/-/-/-
AA 6/-/-/-

A 2 V8 H3

Empire Air Training - Fighters, Dive Bombers, and Torpedo bombers from the United Kingdom can base on this Carrier.

To

HMAS Melbourne - 1945
Speed 2
Capacity 2

MG 0/-/-/-
AA 6/-/-/-

A 2 V8 H3

Dive Bomber Operations - Friendly dive bombers or aircraft that can choose to deploy as a dive bomber can base on this unit. If an aircraft cant base on a carrier, it can't use this ability.

ASW Screen - Divebombers based on this unit may make a 3 dice ASW attack instead of thier normal attack

au64 Deck E playtester Posts: 1,847	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 27, 2023 20:21:56 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by au64 on Mar 27, 2023 20:21:56 GMT I'll second the proposal as I think it is the right move. What are we thinking of for cost?

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,695	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Mar 27, 2023 23:49:07 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Mar 27, 2023 23:49:07 GMT 12. No bettter or worse than colossus

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,695	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 4, 2023 1:02:31 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 4, 2023 1:02:31 GMT Adopt at 12?

baldeagle Forumini Ensign Posts: 71	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 4, 2023 20:33:54 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by baldeagle on Apr 4, 2023 20:33:54 GMT I guess this depends on the definition of "Friendly"? Can "Friendly" fighters also base on it?

Scheerluck Forumini Captain Posts: 1,557	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 4, 2023 20:49:51 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by Scheerluck on Apr 4, 2023 20:49:51 GMT I believe they can if they are fighter-bombers, but they cannot otherwise

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,695	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 4, 2023 20:50:16 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 4, 2023 20:50:16 GMT If theyre fighterbombers, corsair and firefly

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,695	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 7, 2023 3:35:16 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 7, 2023 3:35:16 GMT Ongoing review

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,695	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 12, 2023 0:36:56 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 12, 2023 0:36:56 GMT Adopt?

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,695	#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done Apr 17, 2023 23:58:37 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Apr 17, 2023 23:58:37 GMT I'll move it

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#19 HMAS Melbourne - Done

Post by Guest on Jan 24, 2023 14:08:19 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Mar 20, 2023 3:11:33 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Mar 20, 2023 4:15:09 GMT

Post by Theaetetus on Mar 22, 2023 13:12:07 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Mar 24, 2023 11:51:13 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Mar 26, 2023 18:54:10 GMT

Post by au64 on Mar 27, 2023 20:21:56 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Mar 27, 2023 23:49:07 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 4, 2023 1:02:31 GMT

Post by baldeagle on Apr 4, 2023 20:33:54 GMT

Post by Scheerluck on Apr 4, 2023 20:49:51 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 4, 2023 20:50:16 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 7, 2023 3:35:16 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 12, 2023 0:36:56 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Apr 17, 2023 23:58:37 GMT

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