UK Aircraft Vote

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	UK Aircraft Vote Jun 21, 2018 2:48:04 GMT Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Jun 21, 2018 2:48:04 GMT Choose between these two for your UK Air preference UK Avenger-Tarpon Supermarine Walrus Mk. I - Gunnery Spotter (new SA), Search and Rescue
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 8,347	UK Aircraft Vote Jun 21, 2018 9:36:39 GMT via mobile Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Jun 21, 2018 9:36:39 GMT Is the SA suggestion fixed?

ticat1 Moderator "Ready, Aye, Ready" Posts: 1,363	UK Aircraft Vote Jun 21, 2018 10:04:29 GMT via mobile Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by ticat1 on Jun 21, 2018 10:04:29 GMT Jun 21, 2018 9:36:39 GMT flakstruk said: Is the SA suggestion fixed? No. Just giving an idea as to what possible uses there are
	To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high. -In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,569	UK Aircraft Vote Jun 23, 2018 23:14:04 GMT via mobile swished3 likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Jun 23, 2018 23:14:04 GMT Walrus is an SA. They seem to be attached to ships 1-2 at a time. Pinpointed SA or similar. I can see an attack similar to the French Crusier

2¢ Guest	UK Aircraft Vote Jun 24, 2018 2:29:32 GMT swished3 likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Back to Top Post by 2¢ on Jun 24, 2018 2:29:32 GMT The Walrus should be an SA attached to a ship.

texasarcher
Deck E playtester

Posts: 419

UK Aircraft Vote Jun 24, 2018 14:34:51 GMT via mobile swished3 likes this

Post by texasarcher on Jun 24, 2018 14:34:51 GMT

Walrus should be like the french cruiser, a token, not a full ane in the game. With the Tarpon, you give the UK a second attack plane with 8VA or above. Dont get me wrong, tye Firefly is good, butbringing the same plane over and over because its the best youve got allows your opponents to plan accordingly. The Tarpon will add a much needed variety while being effective...

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 4,524

UK Aircraft Vote Jun 24, 2018 15:20:27 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jun 24, 2018 15:20:27 GMT

My worry is the Avenger (and Helldiver) are too powerful with VA9. They are broken and giving that out again will now put British builds officially in "broken cheese air" territory.

Don't get me wrong, other than the Avenger and Helldiver it is almost impossible to use bombers in this game anymore because AA is so strong. But the Avenger and Helldiver are extreme (and a big reason everyone went so AA crazy IMO). No bomber of any type should have been given VA over 8. Additional buffs should have been done with SAs. VA 9 should have been reserved for late war super fighters only. The air game is so out-of-balance now I don't really know what to do about it. My local club basically uses loiter aircraft sometimes and almost always puts a pair of fighters in a build which effectively knocks out the use of offensive air in our builds except the US Helldiver/Avenger build. Attack aircraft just can't pay for themselves in a four to five turn game when they can only be used every other turn and will mostly get aborted or shot down anyway.

I have switched my vote on this thread twice. If the floatplanes can be given a decent scouting ability and sea basing they might actually be more useful overall. I just don't know what the answer is.

Interestingly, my club members thought the Myrt was the most useful addition in Deck E.

Last Edit: Jun 24, 2018 15:27:03 GMT by weedsrock2

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texasarcher
Deck E playtester

Posts: 419

UK Aircraft Vote Jun 24, 2018 17:32:53 GMT via mobile

Post by texasarcher on Jun 24, 2018 17:32:53 GMT

Jun 24, 2018 15:20:27 GMT weedsrock2 said:

My worry is the Avenger (and Helldiver) are too powerful with VA9. They are broken and giving that out again will now put British builds officially in "broken cheese air" territory.

Don't get me wrong, other than the Avenger and Helldiver it is almost impossible to use bombers in this game anymore because AA is so strong. But the Avenger and Helldiver are extreme (and a big reason everyone went so AA crazy IMO). No bomber of any type should have been given VA over 8. Additional buffs should have been done with SAs. VA 9 should have been reserved for late war super fighters only. The air game is so out-of-balance now I don't really know what to do about it. My local club basically uses loiter aircraft sometimes and almost always puts a pair of fighters in a build which effectively knocks out the use of offensive air in our builds except the US Helldiver/Avenger build. Attack aircraft just can't pay for themselves in a four to five turn game when they can only be used every other turn and will mostly get aborted or shot down anyway.

I have switched my vote on this thread twice. If the floatplanes can be given a decent scouting ability and sea basing they might actually be more useful overall. I just don't know what the answer is.

Interestingly, my club members thought the Myrt was the most useful addition in Deck E.

The unfortunate ussue I see is that with the Walrus, with its 135 MPH max speed, we will end up with a scouting version of a swordfish which IMO, is useless given the plethora of high performance fighters in the game right now. I would rather oay 10 points now for a Gotland every single time than a Walrus because it can do more than 1 thing...

As for the Tarpon, I think its ok to do. We alrady have a TBF 1 in the game with 8 VA and lower stats, to show the early war version of the Avenger. Per my research, and correct me if I am wrong... a lot of the initial Tarpons were TBF-1. Keeping the Tarpon at 8VA is no problem I think. If we give it a British SA to go along with it, I can be useful and give more atrack options to the UK. This unit will not change things in a 1945 game, but it can be a very nice mid-war piece if we do it right...

waratsea4
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 839

UK Aircraft Vote Jun 25, 2018 18:01:15 GMT via mobile waratsea4 likes this

Post by waratsea4 on Jun 25, 2018 18:01:15 GMT

Jun 24, 2018 17:32:53 GMT texasarcher said:

Jun 24, 2018 15:20:27 GMT weedsrock2 said:

My worry is the Avenger (and Helldiver) are too powerful with VA9. They are broken and giving that out again will now put British builds officially in "broken cheese air" territory.

Don't get me wrong, other than the Avenger and Helldiver it is almost impossible to use bombers in this game anymore because AA is so strong. But the Avenger and Helldiver are extreme (and a big reason everyone went so AA crazy IMO). No bomber of any type should have been given VA over 8. Additional buffs should have been done with SAs. VA 9 should have been reserved for late war super fighters only. The air game is so out-of-balance now I don't really know what to do about it. My local club basically uses loiter aircraft sometimes and almost always puts a pair of fighters in a build which effectively knocks out the use of offensive air in our builds except the US Helldiver/Avenger build. Attack aircraft just can't pay for themselves in a four to five turn game when they can only be used every other turn and will mostly get aborted or shot down anyway.

I have switched my vote on this thread twice. If the floatplanes can be given a decent scouting ability and sea basing they might actually be more useful overall. I just don't know what the answer is.

Interestingly, my club members thought the Myrt was the most useful addition in Deck E.

The unfortunate ussue I see is that with the Walrus, with its 135 MPH max speed, we will end up with a scouting version of a swordfish which IMO, is useless given the plethora of high performance fighters in the game right now. I would rather oay 10 points now for a Gotland every single time than a Walrus because it can do more than 1 thing...

As for the Tarpon, I think its ok to do. We alrady have a TBF 1 in the game with 8 VA and lower stats, to show the early war version of the Avenger. Per my research, and correct me if I am wrong... a lot of the initial Tarpons were TBF-1. Keeping the Tarpon at 8VA is no problem I think. If we give it a British SA to go along with it, I can be useful and give more atrack options to the UK. This unit will not change things in a 1945 game, but it can be a very nice mid-war piece if we do it right...

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 8,347

UK Aircraft Vote Jun 25, 2018 21:09:25 GMT via mobile

Post by flakstruk on Jun 25, 2018 21:09:25 GMT

Neither unit fills me with joy. Under the core rules+historical restructions you can use the us planes any and always could. Roundel is about all that saves thes barra from absolute obsolescence. The firefly is a decent DB woth the nifty switch hit escort thing.

raevski Administrator Cooking with gas Posts: 1,569	UK Aircraft Vote Jun 26, 2018 9:52:58 GMT swished3 likes this Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by raevski on Jun 26, 2018 9:52:58 GMT Walrus can’t work. It is a ship SA.

texasarcher
Deck E playtester

Posts: 419

UK Aircraft Vote Jun 26, 2018 13:44:11 GMT via mobile swished3 likes this

Post by texasarcher on Jun 26, 2018 13:44:11 GMT

Jun 25, 2018 21:09:25 GMT flakstruk said:

Neither unit fills me with joy. Under the core rules+historical restructions you can use the us planes any and always could. Roundel is about all that saves thes barra from absolute obsolescence. The firefly is a decent DB woth the nifty switch hit escort thing.

And this I believe is a major part of tbe problem. Because the UK can use USN aircraft in game, I think the deck designers are afraid to add some of the better or later RN aircraft for fear of them being OP. There are some good planes we will probably never see because of tbat rule. Personally, I would love to see a Fighter Bomber Mosquito (That CC version is not very useful), Hawker Typhoon fighter, and The A-35, since the UK and commonwealth used them the most. Personally, none of the above are OP aircraft and game changers, but they are good "nice to have", iconic, historical options. All I ask is that people thinking about the RN as their own navy because if we don't then honestly there is no real point to give the RN anymore aircraft, because with the exception of the Sunderland, The USN aircraft are better at everything then the RN aircraft (my opinion). Treating the RN as part of the USN undercuts their value in the game..

Last Edit: Jun 26, 2018 14:04:45 GMT by texasarcher

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Post by ticat1 on Jun 21, 2018 2:48:04 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Jun 21, 2018 9:36:39 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Jun 21, 2018 10:04:29 GMT

Post by raevski on Jun 23, 2018 23:14:04 GMT

Post by 2¢ on Jun 24, 2018 2:29:32 GMT

Post by texasarcher on Jun 24, 2018 14:34:51 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jun 24, 2018 15:20:27 GMT

Post by texasarcher on Jun 24, 2018 17:32:53 GMT

Post by waratsea4 on Jun 25, 2018 18:01:15 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Jun 25, 2018 21:09:25 GMT

Post by raevski on Jun 26, 2018 9:52:58 GMT

Post by texasarcher on Jun 26, 2018 13:44:11 GMT