Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Apr 16, 2020 19:39:00 GMT
Hi guys,
I'm looking into purchasing some 1/1200 or 1/1250 scale Russian pre-dreadnought models, and, since I have a bit of an aversion to painting, was curious if anyone might be willing to take a commission. These models would be pre-assembled miniatures, so only painting would be required. Anyone interested?
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Apr 16, 2020 18:36:02 GMT
Hi guys,
I'm looking into purchasing some 1/1200 or 1/1250 scale Russian pre-dreadnought models, and, since I have a bit of an aversion to painting, was curious if anyone might be willing to take a commission. These models would be pre-assembled miniatures, so only painting would be required. Anyone interested?
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Apr 16, 2020 3:02:36 GMT
Is it too late to join?
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Life and school are kinda crazy rn, but I will return to this. Give me a bit.
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Jan 24, 2020 22:47:12 GMT
May we put this on hold for about a week?
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Hey, sorry for the delay. School started today and I’ve been busy—the other day I visited Syzmo at the battleship New Jersey and he took me deep into the bowels of the ship!
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Jan 19, 2020 20:25:30 GMT
Ok HSB at ANB:
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Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
HMS Victorious did indeed operate Avengers during her time in the Pacific, and at one point, the squadron moved USS Saratoga.
All that said, this topic has come up on the Forum before. Victorious did indeed operate under US tactical/operational control in 1943, but the ship was not "transferred" to the US Navy. She retained her British captain and crew, continued to fly the colors of the Royal Navy, and remained HMS, not USS. A lot gets made of the whole "USS Robin" thing, but as far as I've read, it was just a radio callsign. She was the first example of British carriers being integrated into US carrier groups in the Pacific, a practice that was repeated more frequently later in the war. The cross deck of US Wildcats and a FAA Avenger squadron was somewhat unique, but that capability is already largely covered under Historical Limits in the rulebook (page 41).
In my opinion, there doesn't really need to be a unique Victorious card to represent its operations in the Pacific. She actually operated with Carrier Division 1 for a very short period of time (17 May - 25 Jul) before returning to home waters. She participated in Operation Cartwheel. Just allow a US fleet to include Victorious, and otherwise follow the rules for Historical Limits.
If I was going to do a card for this, I'd call it Operation Cartwheel Victorious, keep the British roundel on it, and simply put an SA on it that allowed its operation in a US fleet under Historical Limits, along with the ability to base US and British planes. After the battle starts, there is nothing in the rules stopping a US player from switching planes around between allied carriers, so this is really about legal fleet builds when playing with Historical Limits. It would also allow a US fleet limited access to British carrier planes, though outside of the Seafire, I'm not sure how big a deal that would be.
Personally, I would not include the over-stuff ability on Victorious's flight deck. There really isn't a mechanic in the game to define "the Pacific". If this ship could do it, why not any of the others in the Illustrious class, some of which operated in the Pacific and/or Indian Ocean as well? It would also make her a near duplicate of the various versions of HMS Indomitable that are out there that use similar SAs to reflect her slightly larger capacity. There are other carriers in the game that could host 60 planes and only got Cap 2. At one point in 1945, USS Essex carried 126 aircraft ( steelnavy.com/essex_data.htm ), but we've never attempted to give her CAP 5. Replenish Aircraft covers that unique event.
I did a little digging on Saratoga's air group during that period. If these pages are accurate, it appears US Wildcats, Dauntlesses, and Avengers operated on Victorious during the period (not hard to believe given the number of sorties flown, at some point the planes would end up on the other deck).
My guess is this was done to test interoperability more than anything else. Given how briefly the ships operated together, its hard to call any of the squadron reassignments "permanent". Funny enough, it provides a little justification for the Brits being able to use US Navy TBDs under Historical Limits, an ability I've always found a bit wonky.
I suppose my question is, did she carry (and service/operate effectively) enough of them to actually constitute a unit of them in WAS? I'll need to read those links you provided, but it certainly seems there was a reason why it was decided Victorious would only carry fighters and Saratoga the attack aircraft.
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Jan 18, 2020 0:16:14 GMT
Ok so your surface?
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Jan 16, 2020 23:36:02 GMT
Ok, Britannia group to bottom objective.
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Jan 16, 2020 23:33:58 GMT
The citation in that particular section of the Wiki page on HMS Victorious is not clear enough in my opinion.
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
I would consider giving her an SA restricting her to carrying fighter aircraft, or at least not American strike aircraft.
According to the article, she did carry Avengers during her time with the US fleet. I think that the other SA's make this primarily a fighter carrier, though
According to the one I attached? I didn't read it thoroughly I'll admit...
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington
Post by Fear God & Dreadnought! on Jan 16, 2020 3:16:57 GMT
Your move.
Formerly "Admiral Jacky Fisher."
"It follows then as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious"--George Washington