Ok, so I'm in a game using West Virginia and something came up that I've never come across before. The SA:
RADAR SOLUTION: The first time you make a Main Gunnery attack during the game, the attacking unit rolls one extra die. If this unit is undamaged, the attacking unit can make the Main Gunnery attack against an enemy unit in darkness within range 4 without a penalty. (West Virginia)
The Situation: Its a night game. We are late in the game, and on a previous turn, West Virginia has already fired, benefiting from the bonus in the first sentence of the SA, "The first time you make a Main Gunnery attack during the game, the attacking unit rolls one extra die." West Virginia is still undamaged on this later turn and has a enemy BB at range 4. Is the second sentence in the SA, "If this unit is undamaged, the attacking unit can make the Main Gunnery attack against an enemy unit in darkness within range 4 without a penalty" independent of the "first time" part of the first sentence? In other words, can a ship with Radar Solution make as many range 4 attacks as it wants at night, so long as it remains undamaged?
When ever I use WeeVee at night, I usually end up taking damage pretty quick, so this has never come up in one of my games before, despite probably using this BB a couple dozen times.
I'm reading this for the first time in a while. The first sentence makes it seem like it isn't supposed to be weevee's first attack but rather the first gunnery attack by any ship in your fleet.
Syzmo, I did find this in the "Officially Clarified SAs" thread on the old board:
Radar Solution: The bonus applies to the first Main Gunnery attack of the ship with the special ability. The correct wording should be, "The first time this unit makes a Main Gunnery attack ..." Units: West Virginia Source: community.wizards.com/go/t.../75890/25042781/WaS:_CZ_Questions and WAS U/C
I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way. - Captain John Paul Jones
Some could take it as Syzmo says;; a friendly ships first MG; but the second sentence needs a little KISS to keep it so.
Amendment;; bonus applies to the first MG attack of the ship with the SA;
If you add the amendment to the sentence;; The first time this unit makes a MG attack during the game, [the attacking unit] gets one extra die. If this unit is undamaged, [the attacking unit] can make the MG attack against an enemy uint in darkness at range 4 without penalty. How about replacing [ the attacking unit ] with IT
RADAR SOLUTION: The first time you make a Main Gunnery attack during the game, the attacking unit rolls one extra die. If this unit is undamaged, the attacking unit can make the Main Gunnery attack against an enemy unit in darkness within range 4 without a penalty. (West Virginia)
I am going to disagree with everyone here it seems.
The key here is "a" versus "the." The first sentence says "The first time you make a Main Gunnery attack" and then references "the attacking unit." The second sentence says "the attacking unit" (see the first sentence for this to make sense) "can make the Main Gunnery attack" ("the" here) "against an enemy unit" (one enemy unit--why say this?) at range 4, in darkness, without a penalty.
"The" attack means the "first" attack referenced in the prior sentence. "An enemy unit" means the one that was attacked with the "first" attack.
If it was all attacks, without changing the overall form, it would say "can make a Main Gunnery attack" instead. If we want to clean up the format, it would be: "If this unit is undamaged, (the attacking unit) OR (this unit) can make Main Gunnery attacks against enemy units in darkness within range 4 without a penalty." Then it would have probably added "The first time this unit makes a Main Gunnery attack during the game, this unit rolls one extra attack die."
(On a final side note, I still disagree with the WotC official clarification that this only applies to West Virginia. At the time this SA was written, there were plenty of units with SAs that specifically stated it was the ship with the SA that got the bonus rather than any unit "the attacking ship." There was no reason to draft this SA with this language if it was not meant to apply to any ship, not just WV. Radar Solution clearly allows any unit to benefit, but we are stuck with Huscari's, frankly off the cuff, clarification.)
Yeah but they changed the wording of the sa, not just an interpretation of it
The wording change appears limited to saying "this unit" in the first part of the first sentence. It still uses "a Main Gunnery attack" followed by "the Main Gunnery attack."
In other words the limited clarification changes it to this:
RADAR SOLUTION: The first time you makethis unit makes a Main Gunnery attack during the game, the attacking unit rolls one extra die. If this unit is undamaged, the attacking unit can make the Main Gunnery attack against an enemy unit in darkness within range 4 without a penalty. (West Virginia)
So, the change does not alter any of my comments because my comments rely on other parts of the SA.
"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~
Post by Solomiranthius on Aug 21, 2017 20:18:38 GMT
Try this instead. Take the second sentence in isolation (as everyone else has essentially argued it should be) and read it aloud:
If this unit is undamaged, the attacking unit can make the Main Gunnery attack against an enemy unit in darkness within range 4 without a penalty.
Does it make sense? No. You need context.
What is "the attacking unit"?
What is "the Main Gunnery attack"?
Even if you take the entire clarification and change everything to "this unit" the second sentence still reads like this:
"If this unit is undamaged, this unit can make the Main Gunnery attack against an enemy unit in darkness within range 4 without a penalty."
Again, what is "the" Main Gunnery attack?
Why a single unit?
The two sentences must be read together, which limits the subject of the second sentence ("the Main Gunnery attack") to the subject of the first sentence (the first main gunnery attack).
"You like ships. You don't seem to be lookin' at the destinations. What you care about is the ships, and mine's the nicest." ~ Firefly ~
Post by cavalrywolfpack on Aug 21, 2017 21:25:30 GMT
I have to agree with solo here, partly due to my understanding of complex rulings and wordings in other games, although I also understand this is a different game. The range 4 ability is part of the extra die ability. In other words, attacking at range 4 is not a passive bonus that only exists as long the she is undamaged. They BOTH apply to the first attack, and from there on out NEITHER apply. If one was meant to be passive bonus (such as Extended Range 4), it would be a separate ability. However, this is a single ability, not two, and I would argue that its first attack gets an extra die and can attack at range 4, but after the first attack it loses both the extra die and range 4.