One of the players in our group dislikes to have three Short S.25 Sunderland was a British flying boat patrol bombers in the game. One is fine, anything else and he will surrender. Are these patrol bombers broken or overpowered game wise.
Their ship their coffin The cruel dark sea their grave.
I don't think it is overpowered. I use to play online and was very bad at it. Use to play against SWO-Daddy a lot and bring Sunderlands. His USN aircraft would swat them away like flys.
Erwin Rommel - "Give me American supply lines, British planes, German officers and Canadian troops, and I can take over the world".
I think your friend is overreacting- the Sunderland is a good bomber, but it has a couple of glaring weaknesses (lack of torpedoes to go after bigger ships, lack of SAs like Shadow that give it some better utility).
One thing that stands out (though only if you play with only WotC cards, now that the Hurricane Mk. 1A is a thing), is the lack of a British escort fighter prior to 1941; any fighter will chew up and spit out an unsupported Sunderland, even with Defensive Armament. And not just Fw-190s or Hellcats- I've lost Sunderlands to Claudes before, and this is after turn 1 when they lose Surprise.
The man who gets beat down isn't the loser. The guy who can't tough it out to the end, he's the one who loses.
I could see three corsairs being overpowered. With buffs from the US carriers it’s a nasty bomber or fighter. Sunderlands are a good patrol bomber. Nice SA’s and not terribly fragile but come on. Way over reacting.
The Sundys can be a complete pain. My buddy ALWAYS brings three and essentially mines the route to one of the objectives so I either have to go thru the mines and take my chances or go around and slow down my approach. Then he races for that objective and goes heavy on another. His plan is to easily win one uncontested and then be able to take a 2nd by force. It's not a fool-proof plan, but it makes me make hard choices...
Hitting 6 Armor/escorted bombers isn't easy for the Germans/Italians fighters...
One thing that stands out (though only if you play with only WotC cards, now that the Hurricane Mk. 1A is a thing), is the lack of a British escort fighter prior to 1941; any fighter will chew up and spit out an unsupported Sunderland, even with Defensive Armament.
Core game (Red Vs Blue) means that they can be escorted with any allied fighter with escort.
One thing that stands out (though only if you play with only WotC cards, now that the Hurricane Mk. 1A is a thing), is the lack of a British escort fighter prior to 1941; any fighter will chew up and spit out an unsupported Sunderland, even with Defensive Armament.
Core game (Red Vs Blue) means that they can be escorted with any allied fighter with escort.
Which still leaves a gap if you're playing with only WotC cards- the earliest fighter available to the Allies w/o forumini cards is the D.520, which lacks Escort, and prior to the release of the Hurricane Mk 1A the only allied fighter with Escort prior to '41 was the Mb. 152. If forumini cards are available there are escorts to be had, but without the cards it makes using the Sunderland to the best of its abilities a more calculated task.
The man who gets beat down isn't the loser. The guy who can't tough it out to the end, he's the one who loses.
I think in this particular scenario, it was night and the total points in the build were not very high. Patrol bombers do fairly well at night if you are playing night rules but land based fighters not very useful. So it was a circumstance where fighters were not likely to appear. I don't think much air was expected at all. The complaint apparently stemmed from the three Sutherlands sinking the entire German fleet over the course of the game (including two German cruisers) and never getting to engage the British surface fleet. Still, the German player should likely have been a little more aware as Sutherlands are a favorite for any British player in the group.
I think in this particular scenario, it was night and the total points in the build were not very high. Patrol bombers do fairly well at night if you are playing night rules but land based fighters not very useful. So it was a circumstance where fighters were not likely to appear. I don't think much air was expected at all. The complaint apparently stemmed from the three Sutherlands sinking the entire German fleet over the course of the game (including two German cruisers) and never getting to engage the British surface fleet. Still, the German player should likely have been a little more aware as Sutherlands are a favorite for any British player in the group.
Ah. In that context it does have a bit more power to it (though I still hesitate to call it OP).
The man who gets beat down isn't the loser. The guy who can't tough it out to the end, he's the one who loses.
If you’re playing 3 Sunderlands at 100 points they’d better be rock stars. Otherwise you will lose! It’s too much of your build total to spend and not get return.