Thoughts on the Haguro?

nagato01
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 969

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 17, 2021 23:28:29 GMT lurkskywaker199 likes this

Quote

Post by nagato01 on Jul 17, 2021 23:28:29 GMT

Ever since I opened my first starter set way back in 2014 nearly 7 years ago, the Haguro has been a personal favorite ship of mine. Aside from liking the aesthetic of the Myoko class, the Haguro in-game is peerless within the IJN. Her stats for their cost are just insane, and this isn't news to anyone. However, in trying to create lists that have variety for IJN builds, I struggle to make one that involves any of the other heavy cruisers aside from highly specialized units like Tone or Chikuma. Is the Haguro too overpowered in your view? I'd be curious to hear people's thoughts.

Float like a motorboat, sting like a battleship

Link to my W@S YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCAQqRnZOqzuyBGMiK74y6MQ

+17 on the Good Trader List!

brenticus86
Forumini Ensign

Posts: 420

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 17, 2021 23:44:37 GMT lurkskywaker199 likes this

Quote

Post by brenticus86 on Jul 17, 2021 23:44:37 GMT

There's always min/maxing going on in my games. I expect to run in to a Yamato or New Jersey, etc. In all my games I don't think Haguro is that overpowered in my opinion, just a handy unit to have in a lot of ways. Sort of the opposite of the Myoko.

iowaforever
Forumini Rear Admiral

Posts: 3,686

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 17, 2021 23:47:24 GMT lurkskywaker199 likes this

Quote

Post by iowaforever on Jul 17, 2021 23:47:24 GMT

I have a limited collection so I usually build the same lists over and over again (not so much here because the PDFs for the forumini decks), though I've often overlooked the Haguro for the most part.

You could do a build with Aoba and Chikuma, get the Haguro with 4 LLT shots at long range (a little risky because you'd have to sail them without an escort, and cruisers can get pummeled by Dive Bombers easily).

The man who gets beat down isn't the loser. The guy who can't tough it out to the end, he's the one who loses.

waratsea4
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 839

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 18, 2021 3:55:44 GMT

Quote

Post by waratsea4 on Jul 18, 2021 3:55:44 GMT

To me the simplest solution to the class is just renaming them;

The Myoko is closer to Haguro's cost and Haguro is closer to Myoko's cost;;

A close analysis of both units finds this to be not perfect, but close enough, the KISS way to keeping it real.

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 4,524

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 18, 2021 4:23:24 GMT via mobile lurkskywaker199 likes this

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 18, 2021 4:23:24 GMT

Haguro is mega power creep. In my club the first four IJN cruisers to put in a build are Haguro, Haguro, Haguro, and Haguro. Most of the guys that have worked on any of the expansion decks will tell you it is impossible to make an IJN heavy cruiser that can compete with Haguro on raw power VS cost without going totally out of bounds on power creep. We have to hunt around for special niches to find a place for new IJN heavy cruisers. Usually without much luck.

Last Edit: Jul 19, 2021 3:01:25 GMT by weedsrock2

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 4,524

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 18, 2021 4:26:57 GMT via mobile lurkskywaker199 likes this

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 18, 2021 4:26:57 GMT

Haguro ws given stats to balance the fleet build for the starter set.

Also, Haguro is a terrible model. It is too fat in the beam and doesn't show the sweeping deck lines or curved bow at all. RB knew this and took extra care to make sure the Mogami sculpt was correct.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 4,524	Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 18, 2021 4:29:45 GMT via mobile ivanhoe22 and lurkskywaker199 like this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 18, 2021 4:29:45 GMT I don't want to imply Haguro is not a good unit. I want to make it perfectly clear that Haguro is not a good unit! Except when you use it in your build. 😉
	The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

nagato01 Forumini Lieutenant Posts: 969	Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 18, 2021 13:23:18 GMT via mobile lurkskywaker199 likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by nagato01 on Jul 18, 2021 13:23:18 GMT Yes as far as scale model accuracy goes, some of the IJN models definitely got the short end of the stick (Myoko, Tone, Kongo, etc)
	Float like a motorboat, sting like a battleship Link to my W@S YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCAQqRnZOqzuyBGMiK74y6MQ +17 on the Good Trader List!

brenticus86
Forumini Ensign

Posts: 420

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 19, 2021 13:08:10 GMT nagato01 and lurkskywaker199 like this

Quote

Post by brenticus86 on Jul 19, 2021 13:08:10 GMT

Just need to ER 5 it with a Iowa class BB. That levels the field nicely. The allies have their cheese units too if we want to get into air units. It would be an interesting experiment to recost the units to what they should be to make more units playable in the game.

nagato01
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 969

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 19, 2021 13:55:20 GMT via mobile

Quote

Post by nagato01 on Jul 19, 2021 13:55:20 GMT

Jul 19, 2021 13:08:10 GMT brenticus86 said:

Just need to ER 5 it with a Iowa class BB. That levels the field nicely. The allies have their cheese units too if we want to get into air units. It would be an interesting experiment to recost the units to what they should be to make more units playable in the game.

Maybe that’s a good project for the team developers since we really are starting to run out of major ships.

Float like a motorboat, sting like a battleship

Link to my W@S YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/channel/UCAQqRnZOqzuyBGMiK74y6MQ

+17 on the Good Trader List!

waratsea4
Forumini Lieutenant

Posts: 839

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 19, 2021 22:43:37 GMT

Quote

Post by waratsea4 on Jul 19, 2021 22:43:37 GMT

Kind of surprised a group that plays together would play a build of Haguro, Haguro, Haguro:: We know full well its a good unit, but it is an anomaly,

an after thought a stab at redemption whatever, but like a 66 point Musashi, it tends to sway builds.

I believe when you sit across the table from a opponent some of these anomalies should to be disgusted.

To me it's not for us to fix anything, we didn't create the game we play it as is, but an understanding of whats a bit out of the realm

should be examined and limited.

weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 4,524	Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 20, 2021 1:33:26 GMT lurkskywaker199 likes this Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 20, 2021 1:33:26 GMT Jul 19, 2021 22:43:37 GMT waratsea4 said: I believe when you sit across the table from a opponent some of these anomalies should to be disgusted. Freudian slip?
	The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

TrickiVic Forumini Lieutenant Posts: 678	Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 20, 2021 4:26:58 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by TrickiVic on Jul 20, 2021 4:26:58 GMT I like SWO's Nachi and Mokyo more. They have the same stats as Haguro but are also corrected in points. If the SeaGods "re-do" Haguro. Maybe a Java Sea Operational one?
	Erwin Rommel - "Give me American supply lines, British planes, German officers and Canadian troops, and I can take over the world".

mnnorthstars
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,162

Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 20, 2021 21:11:52 GMT

Quote

Post by mnnorthstars on Jul 20, 2021 21:11:52 GMT

Jul 20, 2021 4:26:58 GMT TrickiVic said:

I like SWO's Nachi and Mokyo more. They have the same stats as Haguro but are also corrected in points. If the SeaGods "re-do" Haguro. Maybe a Java Sea Operational one?

You can always drop the price, but if you raise it then nobody has to play that card when a cheaper one already exists. The genie is already out of the bottle.

Keeper of the Leigh Light

Join Club Vichy!

brigman Forumini Admiral Posts: 13,276	Thoughts on the Haguro? Jul 21, 2021 3:16:34 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by brigman on Jul 21, 2021 3:16:34 GMT What MN said. You can give new toys, but you can't take them away. SWO's versions are printed versions of Lucky Y's cards, BTW.

Gallery Title:
Image URL:
Image Title:
Comment:
Tick this box if you would like to allow other members to add images to your gallery.Add Image

Forumini

title

Thoughts on the Haguro?

Post by nagato01 on Jul 17, 2021 23:28:29 GMT

Post by brenticus86 on Jul 17, 2021 23:44:37 GMT

Post by iowaforever on Jul 17, 2021 23:47:24 GMT

Post by waratsea4 on Jul 18, 2021 3:55:44 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 18, 2021 4:23:24 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 18, 2021 4:26:57 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 18, 2021 4:29:45 GMT

Post by nagato01 on Jul 18, 2021 13:23:18 GMT

Post by brenticus86 on Jul 19, 2021 13:08:10 GMT

Post by nagato01 on Jul 19, 2021 13:55:20 GMT

Post by waratsea4 on Jul 19, 2021 22:43:37 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Jul 20, 2021 1:33:26 GMT

Post by TrickiVic on Jul 20, 2021 4:26:58 GMT

Post by mnnorthstars on Jul 20, 2021 21:11:52 GMT

Post by brigman on Jul 21, 2021 3:16:34 GMT

Quick Reply