IJN Aikoku Maru *Done*

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 0:03:45 GMT

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Oct 6, 2020 0:03:45 GMT

Aikoku Maru
Class: Hokoku Maru Class
Commissioned: 5 September 1941
Fate: Sank, 16 February 1944
Displacement: 10,438 (grt)
Length(OA): 527 ft 7 in
Beam: 66 ft 3 in
Speed: 20.9 knots
Armament: 8 x 5.5 in/50, 2 x 3 in HA guns, 4 x 25mm AA, 4 x 13.5mm MG (2 x 2) 4 x 21 in TT (2 x II)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aikoku Maru
Auxiliary
Year: 1941
Cost:

MG: 6/5/4/3
AA: 5 4?
TT:1/1/1 1/1/-/-?
A/VA/HP: 2/8/3 1/6/3?

Slow 2

Class limit: 2
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

History as both a commerce raider and sub tender

Sank 3 merchant ships, captured 2 others and her floatplane attacked one as well.
While attached to SubRon8, the subs of the division sank 40 merchant ships and attacked Sydney and Diego Suarez harbours, They damaged HMS Ramilles in the latter.

Edit to add: (weeds) Conway's says the guns had fixed shields and could not be hidden so the ship could not be disguised. One of the main reasons they gave up on raiding and went to the Sub replenishment role.

POSSIBLE SAs

LONG CRUISE: This unit may deploy in any sea sector on the map.

Probably going to have to be something new. Here are some thematic ideas to play with

Maybe something like a +1 movement if a sub is leaving the sector this unit is in? It'd go well with Long Cruise.
Allow local and adjacent subs to reroll 1 die?
Allow an extra sub in its sector?
Local and adjacent subs ignore air suppression?
Local and adjacent subs can't be sub hunted?

What else can you guys come up with?!

Last Edit: May 3, 2021 5:51:08 GMT by weedsrock2

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

dracos42
Forumini Captain

Posts: 1,311

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 1:21:15 GMT TrickiVic likes this

Quote

Post by dracos42 on Oct 6, 2020 1:21:15 GMT

When this unit is deployed, a friendly submarine may deploy in its sea sector or any adjacent sea sector.

Or, After both fleets are deployed, a friendly submarine may deploy adjacent or local to this unit? The wording will need to be worked on.

flakstruk Deck E developer Posts: 9,839	IJN Aikoku Maru Done Oct 6, 2020 1:47:06 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by flakstruk on Oct 6, 2020 1:47:06 GMT Use the SA the ZH1 had maybe

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 1:56:27 GMT TrickiVic likes this

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Oct 6, 2020 1:56:27 GMT

Oct 6, 2020 1:21:15 GMT dracos42 said:

When this unit is deployed, a friendly submarine may deploy in its sea sector or any adjacent sea sector.

Or, After both fleets are deployed, a friendly submarine may deploy adjacent or local to this unit? The wording will need to be worked on.

Something like

SECRET BREAKOUT: This unit may begin the game undeployed, along with up to one of your Cruisers. Set the undeployed Ships aside. They are out of play. Deploy them together on turn 2 or turn 3 at the end of the Air Return phase in any sector on your side of the map.

Maybe this?:

HIDDEN SUBS: You may begin the game with two of your Submarines undeployed. They are out of play. Deploy them together on turn 2 or turn 3 at the end of the Air Return phase in any sector adjacent to this unit.

Last Edit: Oct 6, 2020 1:56:59 GMT by ticat1

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 3:20:52 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 3:20:52 GMT

Subs can already deploy anywhere on your side of the map so that SA isn't very valuable unless it has Long Cruise in which case it would be very powerful.

Hidden Subs could work, but I find that SA mechanic a hassle to use. More importantly, the first turn is usually the "sub attack" turn in most of our games. If you leave two of them out you are seriously reducing your odds of destroying your opponents subs. On the other hand you will guarantee you have two appearing in turn 2 or 3.

I was think Torpedo Replenishment would work just fine for this ship and be KISS. Especially if we give it Long Cruise. But I would really, really hate to see this get Disguise. That SA is totally broken.

Torpedo Replenishment - During the Submarine Attack phase, one friendly submarine within range 2 may reroll its Torpedo attack.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 3:52:14 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 3:52:14 GMT

Actually, I would suggest just doing "Hidden Subs" just like Secret Breakout and giving it Torpedo Replenishment as well. Or Long Cruise and Torpedo Replenishment. Either combo will work, but differently depending on what is wanted.

Hidden Subs - This unit may begin the game undeployed, along with up to one/two of your Submarines. Set the undeployed Ship and Submarines aside. They are out of play. Deploy them together on turn 2 or turn 3 at the end of the Air Return phase in any sector on your side of the map.

I would prefer just one submarine to be "hidden." Undetected Sub? Sub Rendezvous?

We might want to allowing it to deploy at the end of turn 1 or 2. But we would have to add a cannot take an objective until turn 3 clause. Or No Sea Control.

It should probably have at least a token raider type SA as well.

This would need play testing for sure. But it is interesting. Keep in mind that most IJN subs have long range torpedoes as well.

Last Edit: Oct 6, 2020 3:57:56 GMT by weedsrock2

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 4:07:02 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:07:02 GMT

I think Commerce Raider would be fine for this one. It is mainly a flavor SA that shouldn't carry much of a point cost (if any.) The sub operations are the value proposition.

Commerce Raider - This unit rolls one extra attack die when making Gunnery attacks against Auxiliary units.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 4:09:10 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:09:10 GMT

So my suggestion with ticats proposed SA.

Hidden Subs/Sub Rendezvous - This unit may begin the game undeployed, along with up to one/two of your Submarines. Set the undeployed Ship and Submarines aside. They are out of play. Deploy them together on turn 2 or turn 3 at the end of the Air Return phase in any sector on your side of the map.

Torpedo Replenishment - During the Submarine Attack phase, one friendly submarine within range 2 may reroll its Torpedo attack.

Commerce Raider - This unit rolls one extra attack die when making Gunnery attacks against Auxiliary units.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 4:31:09 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:31:09 GMT

The book Kaigun: Strategy, Tactics, and Technology in the Imperial Japanese Navy 1887-1941, says Aikoku Maru and her sister Hokoku Maru were fast passenger liners that were converted as part of the IJN's "emergency" construction program in August 1941.

Both were refit in March 1942 with one hold converted to carry torpedoes for subs according to the Nihon Kaigun website. So this would be a class of two. Something to think about for the SA package we give it.

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 4:39:54 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:39:54 GMT

I would suggest 1/1/-/- for the torpedoes. She is a converted Merchant Cruiser likely with 2 tubes to a side and probably fixed mounted in the hull.

I would suggest 6/5/4/- for the guns. These are the same old 5.5 in guns installed on the old light cruisers like Jintzu and Oi. Also, a scale model image shows only the for and aft guns could fire in both directions. The other guns were mounted on the sides and could only fire in one direction. So the broadside was 5 guns at best.

Pretty ship IMO. I look forward to painting the minis!

www.hlj.com/1-700-scale-ijn-auxiliary-cruiser-aikoku-maru-1941-pitw-134

Last Edit: Oct 6, 2020 4:47:04 GMT by weedsrock2

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

flakstruk
Deck E developer

Posts: 9,839

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 5:22:13 GMT

Quote

Post by flakstruk on Oct 6, 2020 5:22:13 GMT

How does this get armour2, vital 8?

Given that when raiding, the sisters operated together. Why not just give it secret breakout, torpedo replenishment and commerce raider and call it.

Before we wave arms about longlances. Ramb fled from east africa to japan. So they already a reasonable historical option for the ijn.

weedsrock2
Administrator

Posts: 5,199

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 6:09:19 GMT

Quote

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 6:09:19 GMT

Oct 6, 2020 5:22:13 GMT flakstruk said:

How does this get armour2, vital 8?

Given that when raiding, the sisters operated together. Why not just give it secret breakout, torpedo replenishment and commerce raider and call it.

Before we wave arms about longlances. Ramb fled from east africa to japan. So they already a reasonable historical option for the ijn.

That could work too.

Armor ratings for merchant quality ships are a different animal than warships. The hardest part is their tonnage is usually stated as gross registered tonnage which is not the same at all as warship standard tonnage. GRT is based on internal volume, not really displacement.

I think the best way to do it is sort Hap's spreadsheet to Auxiliaries and then scroll across to the tonnage column and find a ship that is similar. Best comparison is a WotC unit, but if not then look at the others as well. And the comparison needs to be made to other civilian ships, not warship auxiliaries that are built to a tougher standard and that have tonnage expressed in standard tonnage.

Aikoku Maru at 10,438 grt is very close to the SS American Victory at 10,750 GRT. American Victory is 1/6/3. So I think the starting point for Aikoku should be 1/6/3.

The other consideration would be the refit and whether the ship conversion added any armor or other structural strengthening. There is no indication on the Nihon Kaigun TROM that any significant structural work was done. They were very quickly armed and sent out.

So I think 1/6/3 is probably as good as we will be able to get. Looking at the other "civilian" conversions 1/6/3 seems to fit in the right range compared to other bigger or smaller ships.

Good catch.

Last Edit: Oct 6, 2020 6:13:28 GMT by weedsrock2

The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care"
Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

ticat1
Moderator

"Ready, Aye, Ready"

Posts: 1,363

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 6:55:10 GMT via mobile au64 likes this

Quote

Post by ticat1 on Oct 6, 2020 6:55:10 GMT

Oct 6, 2020 4:09:10 GMT weedsrock2 said:

So my suggestion with ticats proposed SA.

Hidden Subs/Sub Rendezvous - This unit may begin the game undeployed, along with up to one/two of your Submarines. Set the undeployed Ship and Submarines aside. They are out of play. Deploy them together on turn 2 or turn 3 at the end of the Air Return phase in any sector on your side of the map.

Torpedo Replenishment - During the Submarine Attack phase, one friendly submarine within range 2 may reroll its Torpedo attack.

Commerce Raider - This unit rolls one extra attack die when making Gunnery attacks against Auxiliary units.

This is it, right here. This is a fantastic suggestion

To you from failing hands we throw the torch be yours to hold it high.
-In Flanders Fields. John McCrea

CommanderSam
Forumini Ensign

Posts: 232

IJN Aikoku Maru *Done* Oct 6, 2020 12:19:45 GMT

Quote

Post by CommanderSam on Oct 6, 2020 12:19:45 GMT

Not stated, but I assume this to be an auxiliary?

I'm really fond of the proposed SAs, I was myself looking for some sub tender stats (one type of unit we did not have)...
Could be good to have some for other other "real" sub nations.

weedsrock2 Administrator Posts: 5,199	IJN Aikoku Maru Done Oct 7, 2020 1:49:45 GMT Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 7, 2020 1:49:45 GMT Yes, it would be an auxiliary. I also think AA should be 4. The mains are old surface guns with no AA capability at all. So the guideline stats show this as an AA 4.
	The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!

Gallery Title:
Image URL:
Image Title:
Comment:
Tick this box if you would like to allow other members to add images to your gallery.Add Image

Forumini

title

IJN Aikoku Maru Done

Post by ticat1 on Oct 6, 2020 0:03:45 GMT

Post by dracos42 on Oct 6, 2020 1:21:15 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Oct 6, 2020 1:47:06 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Oct 6, 2020 1:56:27 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 3:20:52 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 3:52:14 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:07:02 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:09:10 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:31:09 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 4:39:54 GMT

Post by flakstruk on Oct 6, 2020 5:22:13 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 6, 2020 6:09:19 GMT

Post by ticat1 on Oct 6, 2020 6:55:10 GMT

Post by CommanderSam on Oct 6, 2020 12:19:45 GMT

Post by weedsrock2 on Oct 7, 2020 1:49:45 GMT

Quick Reply