It sounds as though Warlord Games of the U.K. is about to release Victory at Sea, a Mongoose Publilshing game system they acquired about five years ago. Interestingly, they are marketing 1/1800 scale unpainted ships with this game. That would suggest that there could be renewed interest in the many WAS minis that so many of us have at home. It's Pacific theatre, which makes me wish I had not sold my Kaga and Akagi last year. Just wondered who is ready to learn another game system to use with these minis.
Those who don't remember their history are bound to do something or other...
Victory at Sea (abbreviated to VAS) is a set of World War II naval wargaming rules published by Mongoose Publishing. They were a development of Mongoose's Babylon 5: A Call to Arms SF starship combat rules written by Matthew Sprange, with assistance from David Manley, Richard Bax, Erik Nicely and Agis Neugebauer, having been initially released through a series of articles in the Mongoose house journal Signs and Portents. A supplement to the rules entitled Victory At Sea - Order of Battle, including expanded ship lists and new rules, was written during 2007. It was rushed into print, unreviewed and with a large number of errors left uncorrected - an unofficial 28 page errata was available several days after its release was announced. The rules have spawned a number of unofficial period and scale variants including ironclad actions and World War II destroyer actions.
An official World War I variant entitled Victory at Sea - Age of Dreadnoughts, written by David Manley was published in 2008.
VAS caused something of a storm when it was released in 2006. It was reviled by some elements of the naval wargaming hobby as being over simplistic and unrealistic, resulting in some poor press on various wargaming fora (e.g. NavWarGames, and in the Naval Wargames Society journal Battlefleet). However, despite this a number of discussions on various internet wargaming fora have suggested that it has proven to be popular and serves as a useful "entry level" set of rules and also as a gateway into historical naval wargaming for science fiction and fantasy wargamers who are already familiar with rules published by Mongoose.
Their ship their coffin The cruel dark sea their grave.
Victory at Sea 2.0 Development 2/03/2012 | No Comments Work has been proceeding apace with this game, with our team of ‘Naval Boffins’ weighing in and correcting our excesses and the playtesters refining the rules wording and ship points values.
We are aiming for this to be a Big Book, full colour throughout, with plenty of battles, history, and gaming and gambling challenges from dreamjackpot to keep anyone interested in the war at sea during World War II happy as a sailor in port for years to come. At the moment, the contents of the book is shaping up something like this;
Basic Rules Introduction The Turn The Movement Phase The Attack Phase The End Phase Special Actions Special Traits
So far, so familiar for those who are currently playing the existing edition, though there are already many, many differences between the basic rules fo the two games. For example, Critical Hits are now mainly progressive, as in A Call to Arms: Star Fleet and Noble Armada, but they also have the ‘sudden death’ potential as well, allowing for rudders to be knocked askew on an otherwise relatively undamaged ship, or to allow for the ‘Hood effect.’
Advanced Rules Advanced Rules: This is a catch-all chapter for all the advanced stuff that does not deserve its own chapter – things such as bad weather, radar, evading torpedoes, and so forth. Aircraft: Born again hard in this edition, along with rules for (possibly) keeping carriers away from the front line in a ‘deep deployment’ rule. ‘Aircraft only’ forces will be permitted, allowing you to play out the likes of Taranto and Pearl Harbour. Coastal Forces: PT Boats and the like will this time be fully integrated into the main rules, and will include harbours and coastal defences. Submersibles: No longer allowed within the ‘core’ fleet engagements, games involving submersibles will form their own scenarios as they harry convoys and ambush forces steaming towards a battle over the horizon.
Battles at Sea: This is the ‘scenario’ section of the book. Scenarios: A primer on how to read and use the subsequent scenarios. Victory at Sea: This is the ‘default’ and perhaps tournament scenario for the game, but it is now much more than just ‘basic deployment, set up your fleet and go!’ You may now have to contend with bad weather and night-fights, and there is now a scouting phase before the battle where you can detach aircraft and ships to watch for the approach of the enemy. Effective scouting will allow you to have a more advanced deployment area, to ‘deep deploy’ your carriers, and also gain benefits such as initiative bonuses. Tactical Challenges: General/generic scenarios that will allow you to use any fleet in a variety of tactical situations, both based on real engagements and hypothetical confrontations of your own devising. Battle of the River Plate: The first of the historical scenarios. Each of these is treated with an in-depth commentary on how the battle came about and how it was fought, before presenting you with the relevant forces and any special scenario rules. Think you can defeat the Royal Navy in this engagement? Think you can sink the Graf Spee before it reaches port (difficult!)? This is your chance to prove it! Battle of Calabria Attack on Taranto Battle of Matapan The German Battleships at War: A medley of battles, charting the history of the great German battleships of the war, and each of their major engagements, from the Attack on the Northern Patrol (the Allied player must try to survive for as long as possible with the HMS Rawalpindi) to the death of the Bismarck.
Though we have concentrated on the Atlantic and Mediterranean up to now, we will also have plenty of battles from other theatres (just starting work on Pearl Harbour right now!), allowing you to wage the war across the oceans during any period.
The War at Sea: This section looks at the history of the war in naval terms, what factors affected the fighting, how technology came into play, and so forth. The following lists what we have done thus far, but there is much, much more to come. The Washington Treaty Ruling the Waves: The Royal Navy: We have done a chapter on every major fleet that took part in the war, looking at their tactics and philosophies, and the obstacles they struggled to over come. There is also, for want of a better term, a ‘card file index’ in each chapter, detailing the statistics and history of what we are hoping will become every military ship that floated during the war, along with some ‘hypotheticals’ (such as the N3). Commerce Raiders: The Kreigsmarine A New Empire: The Regia Marina The Sleeping Giant: The US Navy Banzai: The Imperial Japanese Navy: Yes, we really need a better title than that! Fight for Freedom: The Marine Nationale What Might Have been: The Military Maritime Fleet of the USSR A Thankless Task: Civilian Shipping Where Were the French? War in the Mediterranean The Atlantic Convoys The Submarine War Carrier Operations
Fleet Lists The Royal Navy The Kreigsmarine The Regia Marina The US Navy The Imperial Japanese Navy The Marine Nationale The Military Maritime Fleet of the USSR Civilian Shipping
Appendices The Royal Navy Order of Battle The Kreigsmarine Order of Battle The Regia Marina Order of Battle The US Navy Order of Battle The Imperial Japanese Navy Order of Battle The Marine Nationale Order of Battle The Military Maritime Fleet of the USSR Order of Battle Historical Carrier Complements
So, as you can see, we are well on our way, but lots of work to do yet! No release date has yet been planned for this mighty tome, but we are currently looking at late Summer/early Autumn. That said, it will be done when it is dione, and not before!
It is entirely likely that you will see the new range of Victory at Sea 1/2400 scale ships come out before then, or at least the start of them. Cast in resin, we are hoping to make these among the most detailed World War II models on the market, and a true treasure to own if you are interested in this period. We are casting some prototypes right now and, if they work out, you will see them on Planet Mongoose soon. If not, you will be waiting for a while longer while we attend to the details! In the meantime, here is a 3D mock up of the Iowa…
Their ship their coffin The cruel dark sea their grave.
The Mongoose iteration of this game included 1/1800 scale minis as well. Detail was reasonably good, but they were molded on to a rectangular baseplate, which some folks didn't like. Not sure if a re-release would use the same minis. My recollection is the game wasn't bad, but didn't last very long on the market.
I'd imagine plastic sprues, which will require assembly, like most of Warlord's other offerings.
Warlord seems to mix things up a bit, with both plastic sprues and moulded metal.
While true, I think most of the cruel seas stuff was plastic. Also just going on the image of that Pacific War box i'd imagine its some kind of mass produced starter box which lends itself to plastic. Either way I'm just jazzed to see a naval game that'll have Warlord's cache behind it.
Warlord seems to mix things up a bit, with both plastic sprues and moulded metal.
While true, I think most of the cruel seas stuff was plastic. Also just going on the image of that Pacific War box i'd imagine its some kind of mass produced starter box which lends itself to plastic. Either way I'm just jazzed to see a naval game that'll have Warlord's cache behind it.
I'm not fully aware of the vagaries of mini production, it seems like Warlord does plastic for those items that are expected to sell enough units to justify creating the plastic moulds. Those with more limited print runs seem to be in metal. So, for Bolt Action, lots of Germans in plastic, and the Finns (and small units of all sorts) in metal.
Similarly, I have lots of Cruel Seas Royal Navy in plastic, but the Italian MAS boats are metal. In Black Seas, I only have purchased plastic, but I have seen gamers complaining about the metal Black Seas ships.
My guess will be that the larger print runs will be in plastic, and the less in-demand units will be metal.
Those who don't remember their history are bound to do something or other...
Nice teaser. I am actually pretty excited to see this coming out. The game was originally designed for 1/2400 scale ships, but it doesn't really matter what scale ships you use. You will just need to increase the range and speed movements proportionally. That's what I did with the original rules and using WaS minis. That said, it will take a pretty big table - more likely a floor - to play with a significant number of ships.
This probably shows that 1/1800 scale has become a popular scale with naval wargamers overall. Don't underestimate the availability of pre-paints ships to a lot of gamers! If you haven't sold your WaS minis yet, but have been considering it, it looks like you might have a good opportunity after the game comes out.
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