Played a game the other day and the USN player took all four of the Colorado class (Colorado, Maryland, Washington and West Virginia). The problem came when they used the SA for the WV for all four ships and their excuse was that all four ships of the class should have the same SA. This sort of sleazy cheese in my opinion. There different cards for each of those ships. That is like saying I can use the same SA for all the sister ships of the HMS Black Prince which has a range 1 AA.
Would like to hear from others.... Is this sleazy cheese or acceptable....?
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Westy was the only one of the class to be fully modernized. Colorado and Maryland didn't have nearly as good surface search radars and Washington was never completed so there is no historic justification for this.
As far as game play the rules there is the optional rule to set class limits (should be 3 not 4). They don't ban using the same card but many people houserule in that if you're using sister ships you have to use one of each available card before you can reuse the same card.
As Syzmo mentioned, while it's not mandated in the official rules, it's courteous to use all available sister ship cards before reusing cards.
According to my spreadsheet, there is no card for USS Colorado in either the original or team decks so he could argue that he may use West Virginia for Colorado.
Maryland is a team card. Going strictly by the official WotC published cards, your opponent has a case that he may use West Virginia. However, I would be hesitant to support the argument that the team decks should not be included in a modern gamer's stack. Therefore I would argue that your opponent should use Maryland's card for Maryland.
Washington, the cancelled Colorado-class battleship, on the other hand, is not officially recognized in the rule-book. The official class limit is 3 as Syzmo said. The fact that the name USS Washington was given to a ship of the subsequent North Carolina-class and that ship is in the game further reduces the legitimacy of the choice to use four Colorado-class battleships in a fleet. Certainly cancelled and non-completed ships are included in both original and team decks, so at least you could make that argument but it doesn't sit right with me. Using Washington BB-47 in a fleet would only be appropriate if it were previously agreed upon by all involved players in my opinion.
If it were me, I wouldn't have played that game. I vote sleazy cheese.
According to the Rulebook, he can bring up to the class limit in the same named ship card. The Rulebook even gives an example with Bismark and Tirpitz. The guys in our local club frequently use multiples of the same card (up to the class limits which we always utilize.) However, if we are using, say, two Tirpitz then we call them both Tirpitz so we know what card is in play to avoid confusion (and hard feelings.)
I suggested to my club a looong time ago that we use the "use each named card in a class before adding muliples of the same card" rule. I was shot down in flames. Nobody was interested in following that rule. Too limiting to build options.
So the only comment I would have made is that he had to be using the Wee Vee card for all four ships and calling them all Wee Vee to avoid confusion. If he wanted to use the sisters names then he should have to use the named card if one is available. At the very least he has to make it clear which card(s) are in use for the match. And no "second guessing" if one of the sisters "should" have the same SA. Diversity in this game comes from the individual named cards by design. If you are going to use any house rules those should be specified before the match starts.
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He was using the West Virginia card for all four ships of the class to take advantage of the SA for the Radar,firing at night at Range 4...
Sorry man, but that is perfectly legal and within the rules of the game. You just have to learn to deal with the issue. It took one of our guys who likes IJN DD swarms 2+ years to figure out how to beat my RN Kent "street sweeper" fleet. For a few ships in the game that are a part of large classes, there is only 1 card. That doesn't mean you can only use 1...
Last Edit: Jun 7, 2019 23:02:58 GMT by texasarcher
He was using the West Virginia card for all four ships of the class to take advantage of the SA for the Radar,firing at night at Range 4...
Sorry man, but that is perfectly legal and within the rules of the game. You just have to learn to deal with the issue. It took one of our guys who likes IJN DD swarms 2+ years to figure out how to beat my RN Kent "street sweeper" fleet. For a few ships in the game that are a part of large classes, there is only 1 card. That doesn't mean you can only use 1...
It's not though. While it is legal to use the same card up to the class limit (though it is my opinion that there should be the restriction of using one each of all available cards first) it is not legal to go above the class limit. Class limit on Colorado is 3.
Correct on the official class limit. RB did not count ships that were not built, or were lost (scrapped, foundered, never built, converted to target ships etc.) at the start of the war. Our Forumini deck "rule" is we allow a class limit of one (or one additional) for each named card of a "what-if" ship. So our class limit for the Littorio class is now four instead of three because named cards for Roma and Impero are now available. But the class limit for MI Akagi (for example) did not go up because we don't increase the class for "operational" variants. This rule was set by RB when Sho-Go Yamato and Rheinubung Bismark were released, but he did not increase the class limit.
The current "official" class limits with the inclusion of the Forumini "sea god" decks can be downloaded from the Goldmine wagon.
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He was using the West Virginia card for all four ships of the class to take advantage of the SA for the Radar,firing at night at Range 4...
Texas Archer and ghukek are both correct. He can use up to the class limit with the same card. But the official class limit for that class is three, not four.
You can always house rule to not allow that, but it would need to be announced in advance before fleets were built IMO.
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It can be legal and still be sleazy cheese. I agree that it is legal (well not the class limit breakage, but the multiple use of WV), but good play should go the other way, at LEAST in terms of capital ships.