My 2 cents on a unit like this; you have to make it worth more than 2 cents;
From the Myrt and Kamikaze; It should have along with sea basing; a sort of basing Over Stack;
Example 1 Kingfisher unit for every two or combo of CA's or BB's in your build. They are not in WAS game terms an airfield unit.
Early Warning; Lets face it the most useful use in game terms for this unit;
Example; All CA's and BB's fire minus one range [meaning if enemy is at range 3 use range 2 die roll] at enemy ships in or next to a this units sector.
Close ASW patrol seems to be a primary duty of both floatplanes. How about the SA that gives a bonus to ships that attack a sub this plane has attacked? Or a Vectoring ability.
Close ASW patrol seems to be a primary duty of both floatplanes. How about the SA that gives a bonus to ships that attack a sub this plane has attacked? Or a Vectoring ability.
Or better yet, how about we scrap this bad idea of a plane and give the UK something more useful. Seriously, I see no way at all we can make this unit useful for the Brits...
Last Edit: Oct 2, 2018 21:40:26 GMT by texasarcher
Close ASW patrol seems to be a primary duty of both floatplanes. How about the SA that gives a bonus to ships that attack a sub this plane has attacked? Or a Vectoring ability.
Or better yet, how about we scrap this bad idea of a plane and give the UK something more useful. Seriously, I see no way at all we can make this unit useful for the Brits...
I agree. The E13A 'Jake' and the AR 196 were actually used quite successfully as attack aircraft, were designed with intent for offensive use, and have some interesting potential IMO. The Allied floatplanes were basically used as search and rescue aircraft and not much else. Radar was developed early enough for the Allies to preclude the use of floatplanes as spotters. They were not intended to be used as attack aircraft, and were not used that way.
The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
Or better yet, how about we scrap this bad idea of a plane and give the UK something more useful. Seriously, I see no way at all we can make this unit useful for the Brits...
I agree. The E13A 'Jake' and the AR 196 were actually used quite successfully as attack aircraft, were designed with intent for offensive use, and have some interesting potential IMO. The Allied floatplanes were basically used as search and rescue aircraft and not much else. Radar was developed early enough for the Allies to preclude the use of floatplanes as spotters. They were not intended to be used as attack aircraft, and were not used that way.
Yes I whole heartedly agree. This unit would be better represented by an SA similar to Seaplane Detachment, Swordfish Detachment or something similar. At best.
However if you were interested in the games expansion (and not just dilution) this could be the games first card based SA that could be attached to a British battleship or cruiser? Imagine the text of Seaplane Detachment on a card of its own with and SA saying it can be attached (based :-$) to a UK BB or CA.
Imagine the HMS Warspite or HMS Hood with this card giving just her a Scout (+1) ability to main guns or something similar.
I.E. Walrus Detachment Aircraft - Spotter Points - Armour - 3/6 Gunnery - 1 AA - 3 ASW - 1 or 2 Bomb - 1 or 2
SA's BB/CA Detachment - This unit can be attached to a British BB or CA. While attached that unit gains +1 die to MG attacks. If that unit is destroyed remove this unit from the game.
Seaplane Detachment - This unit represents one seaplane detachment that function as airplane squadrons. Represent it using a marker. Blah blah blah.......
You get the idea. I'm sure you guys can work it out???
I see I've mistakenly posted in the wrong thread :-( Doesn't matter what if we tried this -
Imagine the USS Arizona or USS Baltimore with this card giving just her a Scout (+1) ability to main guns or something similar.
I.E. Kingfisher Detachment Aircraft - Spotter Points - Armour - 3/6 Gunnery - 1 AA - 3 ASW - 1 or 2 Bomb - 1 or 2
SA's BB/CA Detachment - This unit can be attached to a British BB or CA. While attached that unit gains +1 die to MG attacks. If that unit is destroyed remove this unit from the game.
Seaplane Detachment - This unit represents one seaplane detachment that function as airplane squadron. Represent it using a marker. Blah blah blah.......
You get the idea. I'm sure you guys can work it out???
See what I did there? Expansion isn't that hard you just don't have to be so frightened of it.
Not all units are meant to be competetively minded. The trick is getting a balance of efficent unit and interesting units.
Walrus falls in that second catagory. Theres no need to go crazy trying to bend into the first. Sas will never compensate for poor stats
Then you have wasted slots. Wasted slots can be put into the USN and IJN cause they are the 2 best nations in the game... the RN cant afford many more wasted slots than they already have...
We can always agree to disagree, and that is fine.
Airfield spots are always a premiim for any build, but for nations like the RN, Italy, and Germany, they are incredibly critical to your success. Due to there bening a lot of substandard aircraft in the RN/CW inventory, I practically use the same thing all the time:
4- Sunderland 3- Canadian Hurricane FB
Now I know someone is going to come along like always and say you can always use USN aircraft, and while true, I choose not to. I firmy believe that by the end of these decks, the RN can havecompetitive air on its own without "cheating" and using USN air. The Hurricane FB was a big help on that department early war, and there only needs to be a few planes to come out to fulfill this. Stuff like the Hawker Typhoon Fighter, Vultee Vengance, and a Mossie bomber variant would go along way to making this a reality.
So, in irder for this.... thing... to be of any use IMO, it HAS TO HAVE Sea Basing. I refuse to waste airfield slots on this crud. Second, This thing would have to be incredibly cheap to be of any use. Third, I know some people have said to give it spotting whuch IMO would make it OP on such a cheap platform. +1 dice for everything is too much. Something like this would be appropriate.
SA- Zeroing In--- when declaring this SA, chiose a friendly model, and an enemy model within range 2 of this aircraft. The chosen friendly model rolls 1 extra attack dice when firing on the enemy ship chisen by this SA. Someone can clean up the SA a little...
Last Edit: Oct 12, 2018 16:14:56 GMT by texasarcher
I actually like Striker's idea of using the unit as a "detachment" that can be added to any cruiser or battleship. It would take some work, and represents a spotter ability that is attached to a ship. The Spotter ability would be lost if either the "detachment" or the ship was lost. some further thought on what it could look like:
SA's Scoutplane Detachment - At the beginning of the game declare a Battleship or Carrier Cruiser with a Hull value of 3 or more. This unit is attached to the declared ship. If either the ship or the detachment is destroyed remove this unit from the game. This unit represents one seaplane detachment that function as airplane squadron. Represent it using a marker.
Spotter - During the Air Mission phase place this unit. At the beginning of your Air Attack phase, you may choose an enemy ship within 2 sectors. Roll two extra attack dice when making Gunnery attacks against that ship this turn. During your Air Return phase, return this unit to the ship it is attached to and give it a rearming counter.
The basic thought of this is that you are purchasing a limited version of Scout Cruiser 2 which must be placed on the map, can be shot down, and is only usable every other turn. I like the idea but it would need a lot of playtesting.
I actually like Striker's idea ....................................... I like the idea but it would need a lot of playtesting.
Thank you au64 I was thinking the spotting should only benefit the ship the attachment is attached to so it is limited (and maybe can't be stacked with other boosts???).
Since the team is making the Walrus card, which is (IMO) akin to turning an SA into its' own card i.e. a stand alone unit (which I don't agree with). Making a card based SA is like this is almost exactly the same. "From a certain point of view." Ben Kenobi
I actually like Striker's idea of using the unit as a "detachment" that can be added to any cruiser or battleship. It would take some work, and represents a spotter ability that is attached to a ship. The Spotter ability would be lost if either the "detachment" or the ship was lost. some further thought on what it could look like:
SA's Scoutplane Detachment - At the beginning of the game declare a Battleship or Carrier with a Hull value of 3 or more. This unit is attached to the declared ship. If either the ship or the detachment is destroyed remove this unit from the game. This unit represents one seaplane detachment that function as airplane squadron. Represent it using a marker.
Spotter - During the Air Mission phase place this unit. At the beginning of your Air Attack phase, you may choose an enemy ship within 2 sectors. Roll two extra attack dice when making Gunnery attacks against that ship this turn. During your Air Return phase, return this unit to the ship it is attached to and give it a rearming counter.
The basic thought of this is that you are purchasing a limited version of Scout Cruiser 2 which must be placed on the map, can be shot down, and is only usable every other turn. I like the idea but it would need a lot of playtesting.
Change Carrier to Cruiser and it would actually work IMO, and be a big boost in making the RN gunnery go against the USN, IJN, and Germany. IMO, I think Italy needs one of these as well...
Last Edit: Oct 15, 2018 16:20:12 GMT by texasarcher
RB replied to speculation on the Rufe that he wouldnt make a unit dependant on another. The teams, so far have refused to makr new unit classifications.