SAs: Mission Selection (existing): This unit counts as either a Dive Bomber or a Torpedo Bomber. (Choose the unit's role when you place during the Air Mission phase) Surprise Attack (new): This unit receives +1 armor, +1 Vital armor and rolls one extra attack die during the first turn of the game. Durable (new): When this unit would be destroyed roll a die. On a 5 or higher this unit is aborted instead.
Reasons to take this: 1) Durable gives the unit a 33% chance of being aborted instead of destroyed keeping it in the game and preventing your opponent from gaining the points. 2) Surprise attack on the first turn give the unit more punch and sustainability 3) Bomb attacks make it worthwhile to target smaller targets like destroyers and auxiliaries which have lower AA values. 4) Separates the Ark Royal conversation from the Swordfish
I would support this. Keep elite swordfish as the name
Surprise Attack (new): This unit receives +1 armor, +1 Vital armor and rolls one extra attack die during the first turn of the game. So this makes the Swordfish only slightly better at not being aborted only on the first turn. After that it sucks just the same as the MK2.
Mission Selection (existing): This unit counts as either a Dive Bomber or a Torpedo Bomber. (Choose the unit's role when you place during the Air Mission phase) Handy but this isn’t that good if its as easy to abort as the MK2. It doesn’t’t matter if you’re using torps or bombs if you can’t attack.
Durable (new): When this unit would be destroyed roll a die. On a 5 or higher this unit is aborted instead. Oh great you’ve increased the chance of just being aborted. Remember being easily aborted is the problem with the Swordfish in the first place.
Iconic Aircraft - When this unit is aborted the owning player is awarded 1VP.
When I’m facing Swordfish I normally use my worst AA and cheap fighters against it first because it’s so easily aborted and reserve my best AA and fighters for the dive bombers, strafing fighters etc. After all an aircraft that can’t attack may as well not be there. With this idea I found I was needing to kill it not abort it so I was using my best AA and fighters first. If I ever take the Swordfish its mainly because of its iconic status and not because its a good choice. This idea means at least I should get some reward for taking such an iconic aircraft. In a game that normally only lasts about 5-7 turns the Swordfish has to be aborted nearly every turn to make it worth its points. You may want to increase the points reward to 2 but I feel that’s a bit too much because I then would always take the Swordfish except in late war games where the super fighters are almost guaranteed to kill it making bit redundant.
The best thing I like about this version is that it makes it fun to play and it’s KISS. It adds a level of tactical depth when opposing a squadron of Swordfish, something that’s been sadly lacking in W@S for awhile. They Swordfish is so easily aborted that we need a new reason to take it so lets think outside the box and discover a new reason to include it in your fleet.
That logic assumes a player values 1 vp higher than the hull point, and possibly other attribute of the ship under attack. I have doubts they'll risk ER on a 60 point battleship for 1 point. Which circlez around to being fragile.
The simple facts are any unit that can't consistently provide its value is a non starter. Back end shenanigans do not alter this.
That logic assumes a player values 1 vp higher than the hull point, and possibly other attribute of the ship under attack. I have doubts they'll risk ER on a 60 point battleship for 1 point. Which circlez around to being fragile.
The simple facts are any unit that can't consistently provide its value is a non starter. Back end shenanigans do not alter this.
“That logic assumes a player values 1 vp higher than the hull point, and possibly other attribute of the ship under attack. I have doubts they'll risk ER on a 60 point battleship for 1 point. Which circlez around to being fragile.”
No it means he values using a historically iconic aircraft. A 60pt battleship has AA good enough to abort a Swordfish under any condition so why would he be attacking it with a Swordfish? At least with this idea you could farm some points off it.
“The simple facts are any unit that can't consistently provide its value is a non starter. Back end shenanigans do not alter this.” Which is what the Swordfish is and exactly what you’re doing with any of the ideas you’ve tried.
It would be suicidal to bring any 1939 Bombers into a 1942 or later battle. If you are not using year limitations you'd be smarter to bring US Air units (or latter year units) as they would have a better survival rate. So if your expectation is to be able to bring a Swordfish into a 1944 battle and try to have them take down a Shinano with Frank air support... it's just not going to happen. If you want a 1942+ Swordfish it's going to have to be more of a recon unit and/or to pick off crippled ships.
It's also interesting to note that you don't get ANY Armor 5 Dive/Torpedo bombers until 1941 when the US and Japanese entered the war. Even more interesting is that their are only 3 A3 Dive/Torpedo bombers in the game. (Swordfish Mk.1, Swordfish Mk.2, and Late 298)
So the basic question is what are your expectations of how this unit should be used?
The reason why Swordfish got through to Bismarck was that she was alone with no support. If you roll Swordfish out against Bismarck with no support, you will get hits. And some will get shot down.
The reason why Swordfish got through at Taranto was surprise and time of day. With surprise and time of day Swordfish will get through and you will get hits. Some will get shot down.
You can’t say, “Taranto, Bismarck,” and do a mic drop as if you provided some sort of convincing evidence that these were outstanding at beating Antiair flak/taking punishment/delivering massively overwhelming blows to the enemy. In 1939, 1940, they’re usable. They’re even an important piece of the meta if not your strategy. Not 1941 or 2 or beyond.
When I’m facing Swordfish I normally use my worst AA and cheap fighters against it first because it’s so easily aborted and reserve my best AA and fighters for the dive bombers, strafing fighters etc. After all an aircraft that can’t attack may as well not be there. With this idea I found I was needing to kill it not abort it so I was using my best AA and fighters first..
You are supposed to nominate the target of the AA attacks before any dice are rolled, I feel people just keep rolling against a target until they get their abort or kill then move to another target.