The original card for HMS Collossus doesn't restrict aircraft in the least. Why would we impose that on the RAN? Just because they didn't carry other aircraft types doesn't mean they didn't have the capability. It was a choice of the admiralty or the player in this case. You are also assuming everyone has a complete collection and has the afore mentioned aircraft.
Its a function of the rules as written. If your operating under the historical restrictions. Only the UK can another country's aircraft.
If youre not using those rules you can use whatever, but for historical restrictions you would need a operations SA. The precedent is pretty solid, bearn (wildcat op) GZ, Aquila (Stuka Ops) and has been followed in team cards since; Peter Strasser, Weser, Joffre, Spaverio.
The wording of an ability isnt the issue. The 2 questions that need answering are:
1. What makes this distinctive as RAN unit? As opposed to doing an exactant colossus sister for the RN.
2. Assuming it were to be treated as a RN carrier. Why does it get treated differently to its German, Italian and French equivalents?
1. What makes this distinctive as RAN unit? As opposed to doing an exactant colossus sister for the RN.
A. Like all nations and units it's the national symbol on the card.
2. Assuming it were to be treated as a RN carrier. Why does it get treated differently to its German, Italian and French equivalents?
A. Because those nations already have carriers in the game. The problem here is that Australia didn't have a carrier so there isn't another one already in the game so KISS and short cut the problem.
In the poll that asked if we wanted commander cards in the game it also asked if we wanted more fantasy and the result was almost equal with the commander cards so why are we acting on one part of the poll and ignoring another.
This unit will be pure fantasy and doesn't belong in the game.
Remember that a "operations" ability is fuctional only under historical restrictions optional rules. Under basic rules you can play any blue carrier aircraft on any blue carrier.
Australian Carrier - Treat this unit as a British carrier for basing Aircraft.
This would let American aircraft base on this unit At that point we may as well just make this a British unit.
Well considering our head of state is the Queen of England this not that much of an issue. Why do you think our navy is called the Royal Australian Navy when there is no Australian King or Queen? Also this would allow it to operate with a British or US fleet a lot more efficiently which is historically how the Royal Australian Navy operated did in WW2.
2. Assuming it were to be treated as a RN carrier. Why does it get treated differently to its German, Italian and French equivalents?
I'll rephrase my answer. It's not being treated differently. A new Forum German carrier is treated like an existing German carrier. A new Forum Italian carrier is treated like an existing Italian carrier. A new Forum French carrier is treated like an existing French carrier. The problem with an Australian carrier is that there is no existing Australian carrier to teat it like so we have to treat it as an existing carrier already in the game. Australia is still comes under the rule by the Queen of England so it is the most logical choice.
We need to keep this KISS. Your over thinking it and making it way more difficult than what it really is.
But I do agree with you that this is a British unit. I thought the time period of W@S covered 1939 - 1945. I didn't know the time period included the mid '50's when this unit became Australian.
The royal navy, historically, assigned either corsair/barracuda or seafire/firefly airgroups to this class of carrier. Under historical restrictions its reasonable to mirror this. In core rules, non historical restrictions situations you can use whatever aircraft you choose.
Thats the issue at hand -
For the purposes of historical restrictions only, which historically accurate airgroup should it be assumed was delivered. If the 1944 royal navy proposal that the RAN take delivery of a carrier to alleviate RN manpower limitations was followed through.
Well, limits for hypothetical ships is the number of exactant cards. So if your using the raw historical limits its 1. But your table, your call.
Actually, I believe the history is that the UK first offered one carrier and Oz turned it down, and then later in WW2 they offered a second named ship and Oz turned it down also. Maybe someone on here can help me recall the names of the two ships that were offered to the RAN in WW2. If my memory is correct on this, then the class limits is definitely T-W-O for this ship.
Also consider that this is only an issue when taking an Australian Force in the game. There is already a lack of points for any such pure Ozzie force, so having the second ship (which Oz would essentially have after WW2 as well) would help bulk up the points so as to entice people to play an Ozzie force in games. So this could also be looked at is a play balance issue.
The ships were HMS Venerable and HMS Ocean. They were not delivered. So the class limit is 0 + this card.
This card is not the Majestic Class ship HMAS Melbourne or her sister HMAS Sydney (iii) either.
That is for the purposes of the class limit document that is produced with set list. Specifically for the rulebook optional historical restrictions. People can play how they like, but the card should be as close too, in terms of content and intent, the official WOTC Under those rules, you can legally add hms colossus to an australian themed fleet and use uk aircraft on the landbase for reinforcements
Looking at the list of combat aircraft the RAAF actually used in numbers, the spitfire is the next most common in line. Wirraway/Boomerang arent really naval. Liberator, Lancaster are heavies and the Vengance was never considered for naval use. Mustangs were built locally but werent navalised.
So theoretically. We could give Spitfire Operations, for the Mk1. Which would give 2 extra slots for beaforts/beaus/kittyhawks on the landbase. It'd also be possible to include melbourne in a uk fleet with the Mk1 standing in for for seafire i's or what ever.
Looking at the list of combat aircraft the RAAF actually used in numbers, the spitfire is the next most common in line. Wirraway/Boomerang arent really naval. Liberator, Lancaster are heavies and the Vengance was never considered for naval use. Mustangs were built locally but werent navalised.
So theoretically. We could give Spitfire Operations, for the Mk1. Which would give 2 extra slots for beaforts/beaus/kittyhawks on the landbase. It'd also be possible to include melbourne in a uk fleet with the Mk1 standing in for for seafire i's or what ever.
This still seems over complicated. There are too many compatible aircraft to possibly list in the space on the card. I think we need to go with something like I proposed which at bare minimum would boil down to this:
UK Carrier Ops: Treat this unit as a UK carrier for aircraft allocation.
I added the following line to the above to make it clear that just having the carrier did not give unlimited UK compatible aircraft:
Once the two aircraft for this carrier are allocated before the start of the game, these aircraft are subsequently treated as Australian if in an Australian force, and can also base at their land base.
In a rule book historical limit, etc., agreed upon game, these two statements would seem to automatically allow in US aircraft for basing on a UK type carrier as well, which is something you also wanted, but limited to two per each for the two Ozzie carriers of this class to prevent abuse.
The ships were HMS Venerable and HMS Ocean. They were not delivered. So the class limit is 0 + this card.
So you did know this, but are still sticking to the class limit 1 narative despite the historical evidence.
The historical evidence is that the RAN operated no colossus class carriers. Venerable and ocean were the ships suggested may be available if an agreement was reached.
Class limit is based on ships in service between 1939 and 1945. Where none saw service it is equal to the WOTC and "Team" cards representative of that class.
Where a navy had 1 ship, lost it and was given a replacement. That does not increase limit. (Orp konrad/orp dragon=1, hmas australia, hms canberra, hmas shropshire=2) and that goes back to the offical cards.
With regard to the spitfire mk1. What i proposed was that it be the only 'operations' ability on the ship.
The historical restrictions dont prevent mixing allied forces. You can already fill you landbase with allied aircraft. The exception to the british is only to allow amerocan aircraft. All other nations must only use thier own aircraft. Save where a SA allows otherwise.
Or play without that optional restriction and play any red/red or blue/blue combination of carrier and carrier capable aircraft