I've just quick read the previous pages again. Are these set in stone now to be included within the next deck? I've read both arguments for this and a separate deck and I fall within the latter. To me I would rather see a full deck of as many as possible with several per nation(Main Combatants) rather than just token cards. All or nothing I guess, probably would not interest me to introduce just a few. Also I think the make up of the decks up to now have stayed good. I fear the introduction of these, and if the minor/neutrals/obscure creeping into the slots continue, would make for quite a scattered deck type. It could be said some of the historical nations(axis) are running out of choices etc. but when researching for units and looking at others suggestions they still have solid choices to keep up good slot numbers.
It wouldn't stop me getting the deck and even a handful of units I'd use, would be welcome but at the moment I'm uncertain with this approach away from what's gone.
"That's right son, join the navy. Get behind a bloody big gun and knock the hell out of somebody"
"We went out, got our arses kicked, then came back again"
Striker, Yes, if the conditions are met, you coukd score the objective on turn 1. This example plays of the battle of the denmark straight, Hood sunk, PoW retired. Bismark being the last Battleship on the field. Other commanders would have instance specific objectives of thier own.
Yes, as an example you could take multiple bbs and forgo the other ability in most insances. Its a risk/reward consideration. As i said cost is a guestimate.
@gaz, we're discussing that now. 18 i think is reasonable target however, for printing reasons and covering the 7 major powers. I would like to hope that a situation exists where they're playable against fleets without commanders, giving an extra option in that way. But it not been agreed to within the team yet, one way or another
Giving your battleships an extra die against enemy battleships is too OP just on its own.
Not balanced at all.
That's what I was trying to get at. In a 200, 300 or 500 point game this could be a "very good deal". What if only the admiral's BB got the +1? Since the bonus 50pts is if you only have one BB maybe the +1 should apply to one BB?
So, how would you scale an objective equalling ability?
Is a positive like an objevtive SA preferable or not to conditional use that forces player to take specific units or types of units.
Well it looks like no one wants to answer your question so i'll add my 2¢.
After all the sets RB released he didn't once add an SA that awarded an objectives worth of VPs. There's a good reason for this. How many points should an SA that gives 50, 100, 150 or 250 points cost? It doesn't scale well with set point value.
In making an SA conditional on a specific nation's unit/s you're once again doing something RB never did since W@S was always meant to be a R vs B game. However I'm not too fussed about this since RB did sort of introduce it with the SA's Wildcat Operations and Export Version. Both infer that nation limitations were a thing.
I know your trying to hammer every square Admiral into a round hole to fit your model but as I've said before I think its too difficult/limiting to expect every admiral to fit your model. In regards to Admiral Lutjens your trying to apply his ability to 100 points of units but historically in Operation Rheinubung he was in-charge of the Bismarck and PE which in W@S terms only comes to 72 points with only one BB and halfway through the mission he detached the PE so in effect he was in charge of a 55 point BB. Giving the +1 die to every German BB in a 300 or 500 point game would be problematic. Not to mention the idea of basing him on the Rheinubung Bismarck and holding it off until the end of turn 3, letting the Tirpitz and the Ugly Sisters do their damage before deploying him.
Also I wouldn't like to see him included in a Japanese fleet with two Yamato's and two Nagato's etc or Admiral Yamamoto in an Italian or German fleet so I do think Admirals should be restricted to specific nation units but that's just me.
I agree with that. My understanding is that the admirals will only effect units of the same nationality. Nominally leader and may have a flag bonus or negative but none of the special SAs would carry over
How about simplifying Admiral Lutjens by applying the +1 die to the ship he's based on and if that BB is the only one in play award that player the VP of that BB?
that will be a set 20 - 70 points regardless of the game size.
With this he could be used R vs B if you want play that way.
The only r'trick is the other player may not bring a battleship... Also, VP awarded could be limited at 50.
Yes I commented on this in the original proposition and it was considered an acceptable risk/reward. See the top of this page.
If you cap it at 50 points the player could base him on the Schlesien a 20 point BB and if his opponent doesn't field a BB that's an auto 50VP, it's more of a problem if every BB in your fleet gets +1 die. This may lead to the problem similar to the one they had in Star Wars Armada where players would base their commander on a flotilla and hide him at the edge of the table.
If you reward the VP equal to the BB he's on then it may encourage players to always base him on the most expensive BB in his fleet.
However play testing will prove if this is an issue or not.
The only r'trick is the other player may not bring a battleship... Also, VP awarded could be limited at 50.
Yes I commented on this in the original proposition and it was considered an acceptable risk/reward. See the top of this page.
If you cap it at 50 points the player could base him on the Schlesien a 20 point BB and if his opponent doesn't field a BB that's an auto 50VP, it's more of a problem if every BB in your fleet gets +1 die. This may lead to the problem similar to the one they had in Star Wars Armada where players would base their commander on a flotilla and hide him at the edge of the table.
If you reward the VP equal to the BB he's on then it may encourage players to always base him on the most expensive BB in his fleet.
However play testing will prove if this is an issue or not.
I personally don’t like this mechanism but I suggest playtesting to see if it is broken. I think it is.
Commander: This unit is attached to a friendly ship(or aircraft, or submarine depending) in the deployment phase. If that ship is destroyed or removed from the map, this unit is removed from play.
Flagship Bonus: If this unit is attached to a classification with the attribute*. You gain the Bonus to that ship.
Fleet Bonus: If you control Number of classification with the attribute*. You gain Bonus (for your fleet)
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*Attribute: can mean flag rating, special abilities, core stats. Which can narrow down the best selections to historically appropriate ones
So, for example, a commander, might, when attached to an auxiliary with the ability TORPEDO REPLENISHMENT give that ship +1 on anti-air rolls. If the whole fleet included 3 submarines with ARMOUR OF 3 OR LESS the fleet get +1 torpedo die on the first attack of the submarine attack phase each turn.