Page 14 roughly described the size of units as an aside. It has no bearing on the rules.
The historical restrictions are optional. They are not core rules, nor meant to be.
The fantasy tag is derisive elitist term that should have been put down. Theyre hypotheticals. Anything other than direct orders of battle is hypothetical and these rules arent intended for that level of simulation
Whether you like the name or not doesn’t have any bearing on this question. It’s asking, “does this unit fit the category?” not “is this category labeled correctly?” or “should this category exist at all?”
You can categorise it however you like. But the rules dont recognise them, hypothetical units are still legal and any restriction on a 'unit x is hypothetical' are houserules
Yup. I don’t know any person or tournament that doesn’t use class limits, but yeah they sure are optional. So are ASW threat, small ship evasion, strafing, and weather.
Page 14 roughly described the size of units as an aside. It has no bearing on the rules.
The historical restrictions are optional. They are not core rules, nor meant to be.
The fantasy tag is derisive elitist term that should have been put down. Theyre hypotheticals. Anything other than direct orders of battle is hypothetical and these rules arent intended for that level of simulation
Page 14 roughly described the size of units as an aside. It has no bearing on the rules.
The historical restrictions are optional. They are not core rules, nor meant to be.
The fantasy tag is derisive elitist term that should have been put down. Theyre hypotheticals. Anything other than direct orders of battle is hypothetical and these rules arent intended for that level of simulation
Not arguing just some observations;
True the he rough size of a air unit may not have a bearing on the rules; but it sure has a big effect on Carrier Design;
What Cap should it be?? the rough definition of a Naval air unit size sure had a big effect on Unryu's design, boy didn't it.
Same with designing a PB; if the original designed call for roughly 3;; all PB's should be and if their weren't enough to
meet that standard its fake. Yes play it as you like; to me it would be a class limit.
Yes class limits are a Game Historical option; but it is a big game balancer also; In a fair minded match situation;
situation being a friendly game; learning experience or Tournament;;
I'm wouldn't or would i expect someone in a 200 pt build to play against a 3 Musashi build;; just a thought on why
its noted in the rule book.
Hypothetical if you mean • supposed but not necessarily real or true: to me the game rules can handle;
Fantasy • an idea with no basis in reality: to me only Fantasy rules can explain Fantasy so i agree beyond this game.
So i guess its how you look at your units are they Hypothetical or Fantasy??
To me if it wasn't built in time for the war or gone before the war started or in the numbers that represent original unit standards its;;; Fantasy
There are almost as many definitions of "fantasy, never-were, what-if, hypothetical as there are players. I think it mostly ties to how you want to play the game. If you are pure historical/simulation you have no tolerance for anything that didn't actually fight in the war. The other end of the spectrum is pure gaming/competitive and anything that keeps the game fresh and interesting if good. And everything in-between. It's not an argument that anyone is going to "win." You can cite chapter and verse in the rulebook all you want, but it won't change anyone's mind about how they like to play the game. Where we cause trouble is when we try to convince others that the way we play is the "right way." Or when we try to convince others that the game should "change/evolve/grow/expand" and we know exactly how that should - or shouldn't - happen.
I have no solution to this. And maybe there shouldn't be a solution. Everyone should play the game they want to play it. If you play in a tournament environment then for the most part you will have to play to the lowest common denominator. Especially if it is a lot of people from different areas. You can agree on house rules in a local game or club, but it is usually too time consuming to work through all of that in a tournament environment. Especially in a "live, real-time, tabletop" environment. On-line you can take some time for that if you want to go through all of that.
I do agree with Flak that the specific use of the term "fantasy" is negative marketing and intended to provoke. "Fantasy" was originally coined by the anti- Graf Zeppelin crowd and has been pushed ever since. In other environments they use less inflammatory terms like "never were" or "what-if." But I don't see that changing here. (We have tried many times with no effect.)
I once did a game where only units that were what if's or never built designs, never completed, or hypothetical units could be used in the game. Made for an interesting game.
Their ship their coffin The cruel dark sea their grave.
I once did a game where only units that were what if's or never built designs, never completed, or hypothetical units could be used in the game. Made for an interesting game.
Cool. I think I will try that with my local club. However, I will have to explicitly list the units that are "legal" because most of them are not WWII naval history nuts. At least not to the extent that they have Conway's memorized and know when every ship was commissioned and decommissioned or sunk.
The IJN Carrier Liberation Force - "Because We Care" Join the IJNCVLF. Service Guarantees Citizenship!
The Allied list is a bit slim. Did you allow any color of cards or try to fight red vs. blue? There are several fleet types one could make with the Axis.
I once did a game where only units that were what if's or never built designs, never completed, or hypothetical units could be used in the game. Made for an interesting game.
Cool. I think I will try that with my local club. However, I will have to explicitly list the units that are "legal" because most of them are not WWII naval history nuts. At least not to the extent that they have Conway's memorized and know when every ship was commissioned and decommissioned or sunk.
On one or two games we did we put out the month and date for the scenario and if that ship had already been sunk, can not be used. That causes some heartburn from a few people as well.
Their ship their coffin The cruel dark sea their grave.